Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Vixen]

So, if you were innocent, you'd plead guilty to a lesser charge anyway. Got it.

Does anyone remember Machiavelli (sp?). This poster sounds just like him.


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The problem is, if you plead 'not guilty' there are no lesser charges.


Anyway you are entitled to your opinion. I am only interested in the factual side of the matter. To my mind, the idea that Mignini the prosecutor fitted her up is ridiculous, and sentimental nonsense, but I am not going to argue with you if that is what you prefer to believe.


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[AmyStrange]

The problem is, if you plead 'not guilty' there are no lesser charges.


Anyway you are entitled to your opinion. I am only interested in the factual side of the matter. To my mind, the idea that Mignini the prosecutor fitted her up is ridiculous, and sentimental nonsense, but I am not going to argue with you if that is what you prefer to believe.

No, you're not. All you're interested in is in anything that confirms your bias. You ignore everything else that proves you wrong.


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[Vixen]

No, you're not. All you're interested in is in anything that confirms your bias. You ignore everything else that proves you wrong.


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Show me where on the final Supreme Court written reasons it doesn't say what I say it says it does. You are confusing the meaning of 'proof' with your [sentimental?] opinion.



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[AmyStrange]

Show me where on the final Supreme Court written reasons it doesn't say what I say it says it does. You are confusing the meaning of 'proof' with your [sentimental?] opinion..

The only real proof (if you want to call it that) is the DNA on a knife in Raffaele's silverware draw, analyzed by someone (can't remember her name off hand) who was supposed to (paraphrasing) "teach the world how to do DNA analysis", and that was laughed at by most (if not all) of the DNA experts in the world.

Even though her coerced confession was all BS, the police immediately went out to arrest the guy w/o first investigating him, but come to find out, he had an alibi.

As far as her alleged confession is concerned, maybe you should read up on and maybe do some real research on how that can happen and how every sign points to that's what happened.

Everything else pointed directly to Rudy Guede, and did you know Mignini actually believed the Monster of Florence was a group of satanic cultist and not one person, and I think that's why he thought more than one person (Guede) was guilty of murdering Meredith. He was obsessed with satanist.

IOW, he's an idiot.


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[Vixen]

The only real proof (if you want to call it that) is the DNA on a knife in Raffaela's silverware draw, by someone who was supposed to (paraphrasing) "teach the world how to do DNA analysis", and that was laughed at by most of the DNA experts in the world.

Her coerced confession was all BS, but then the police immediately went out to arrest the guy w/o first investigating him, but then come to find out he had an alibi.

As far as her alleged confession is concerned, maybe you should read up on and maybe do some real research on how that can happens and how every sign points to that.

Everything else pointed directly to Rudy Guede, and did you know Mignini actually believed the Monster of Florence was a group of satanic cultist and not one person, and I think that's why he thought more than one person (Guede) was guilty of murdering Meredith.

He's an idiot.


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Sorry, I thought you were talking about what the final Supreme Court written reasons says as a legal fact. The conversation was about whether Mignini thinks she is innocent. I was responding to that issue.


Sure, in any murder trial people come up with 'alternative explanations' outside of the courtroom. Your theory reads very much like fiction writer Doug Preston's theory. Preston has a long-running grudge against Mignini because Mignini warned him to stay away from Italy because Preston was actively involving himself in a live police investigation. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Monster of Florence case, you have to admit that people with grudges may not be altogether reliable in their character assessment of the person they hold a grudge against. Preston hates Mignini. That is between him and Mignini. Nothing at all to do with the Kercher case.


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[AmyStrange]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about what the final Supreme Court written reasons says as a legal fact. The conversation was about whether Mignini thinks she is innocent. I was responding to that issue.


Sure, in any murder trial people come up with 'alternative explanations' outside of the courtroom. Your theory reads very much like fiction writer Doug Preston's theory. Preston has a long-running grudge against Mignini because Mignini warned him to stay away from Italy because Preston was actively involving himself in a live police investigation. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Monster of Florence case, you have to admit that people with grudges may not be altogether reliable in their character assessment of the person they hold a grudge against. Preston hates Mignini. That is between him and Mignini. Nothing at all to do with the Kercher case.

Oh yeah, all that PROVES Amanda and Raffaele are guilty... bwahahahaha.


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[Vixen]

Oh yeah, all that PROVES Amanda and Raffaele are guilty... bwahahahaha.


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Clearly, there is a massive communication gulf between you and me.




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[AmyStrange]

Clearly, there is a massive communication gulf between you and me.

Yes, there is. I'm objective and you're not.

You believe everything Mignini says, but nothing Amanda says.

That's not being objective, because all that does is prove that you're more interested in things that confirm your bias and nothing else.


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[Vixen]

Yes, there is. I'm objective and you're not.

You believe everything Mignini says, but nothing Amanda says. That's not being objective.

That proves that you are more interested in things that confirms your bias and nothing else.


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Nonsense. I believe - and I think this is also Mignini's belief, from what he has said - that Knox was ready to tell all but then the parents turned up and insisted in going the usual route (admittedly also in Italy as in the US) of insisting of all non-knowledge of the crime. Sollecito, as cold as ice, still is. Knox obviously has strong emotions about the whole thing and IMV it is not doing her mental health any good to go down the same route as icy cold Solllecito. Sollecito couldn't care less and never has done. Knox, I think she had a conscience and was suppressed into not acknowledging any of it. According to Mignini, she virtually confessed to him. She was keen to talk, Had Knox spelt out what happened that night, then yes, it could have been a lesser charge if all she did was be present at the scene, or even plead some kind of provocation or being led on by a more controlling manipulative character.


So no, Mignini does not believe she is innocent but he understands the suffering of a presumed guilty conscience and being unable to tell anyone about it, so yeah, why shouldn't he be friendly - albeit in a superficial way - now that he is retired, when she contacts him via social media and begs him to say he publicly back her. He responds pleasantly but he isn't going say he thinks she is innocent if that is not what he believes.

BTW You can continue to be childish and carry on with the name-calling. It doesn't change the reality.




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[AmyStrange]

BTW You can continue to be childish and carry on with the name-calling. It doesn't change the reality

Well, sometimes it's the only way to talk to someone who's acting like a six-year-old, but tell me, how does he know she had a guilty conscience unless he himself also has a guilty conscious. You know, like for being stupid.

Another question is why did the police immediately go out and arrest Patrick Lumumba w/o first doing an investigation?

That alone proves they were incompetent.


ETA: Obviously, you've never read her alleged confession, especially since she allegedly lied about Patrick when asked to explain what she thought happened.


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[Vixen]

Well, sometimes it's the only way to talk to someone who's acting like a six-year-old, but tell me, how does he know she had a guilty conscience unless he himself also has a guilty conscious. You know, like being stupid.

Another question is why did the police immediately go out and arrest Patrick Lumumba w/o first doing an investigation?

That alone proves they were incompetent.


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Mignini was present when Knox broke down over the knives. We are not party to what she told hm but Mignini hints she confessed. Knox was also captured on a police wire tap telling her mother, Edda, 'I cannot lie, I was there'.

As to your comments about the police, yes, the police face a lot of hatred as the person being arrested always blames the person arresting them, or the prosecutor or the judge. IMV it is not very helpful to blame the police for the situation the three of them found themselves in. It demonstrates poor critical skills.


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[AmyStrange]

Mignini was present when Knox broke down over the knives. We are not party to what she told hm but Mignini hints she confessed. Knox was also captured on a police wire tap telling her mother, Ebba, 'I cannot lie, I was there'.

As to your comments about the police, yes, the police face a lot of hatred as because the person being arrested always blames the person arresting them, or the prosecutor or the judge. IMV it is not very helpful to blame to police for the situation the three of them found themselves in. It demonstrates poor critical skills.

See, you believe she broke down because of the knives instead of believing that she broke down because her best friend had just been brutally murdered, and she was being accused of her murder.

That would make me break down too.

Interesting that you believe she was telling the truth in the phone call but in nothing else. That alone proves you're not being objective, and it's also interesting that you ignored the rest of the conversation with her mother, but of course she was there. She lived in the damn house for Christ sake.

And BTW, you still haven't explained why the police immediately went out and arrested Patrick Lumumba w/o first doing an investigation?

That alone proves they were incompetent.


ETA: Once again, you've obviously never read her alleged confession, especially since she allegedly lied about Patrick when asked to explain what she thought had happened. That's not a confession. It sounded more like a dream to me.


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[Vixen]

See, you believe she broke down because of the knives instead of believing that she broke down because her best friend had just been brutally murdered, and she was being accused of her murder.

That would make me break down too.

Interesting that you believe she was telling the truth in the phone call but in nothing else. That alone proves you're not being objective, and it's also interesting that you ignored the rest of the conversation with her mother, but of course she was there. She lived in the damn house for Christ sake.

And BTW, you still haven't explained why the police immediately went out and arrested Patrick Lumumba w/o first doing an investigation?

That alone proves they were incompetent.


ETA: Once again, you've obviously never read her alleged confession, especially since she allegedly lied about Patrick when asked to explain what she thought happened. That's not a confession. It sounded more like a dream to me.


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You are in denial. But you are entitled to your opinion and I shan't argue with you. As the truth never changes.

BTW Knox was not 'accused of her friend's murder' until some eight months later. So your alternate view is poppy cock simply because it never happened as of that point.



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[AmyStrange]

You are in denial. But you are entitled to your opinion and I shan't argue with you. As the truth never changes.

BTW Knox was not 'accused of her friend's murder' until some eight months later. So your alternate view is poppy cock simply because it never happened as of that point.

Yeah, so what?

And talk about being in denial. I've at least considered ALL the alleged evidence, unlike you who only believes bits and pieces that are all based on opinions and "evidence" that is taken out of context which also confirms your bias.


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[AmyStrange]

You are in denial. But you are entitled to your opinion and I shan't argue with you. As the truth never changes.

BTW Knox was not 'accused of her friend's murder' until some eight months later. So your alternate view is poppy cock simply because it never happened as of that point.

And BTW, you still haven't explained why the police immediately went out and arrested Patrick Lumumba w/o first doing an investigation?

That alone proves they were incompetent and once again also confirms your bias.


ETA: Once again (for the third time), you've obviously never read her alleged confession, especially since she allegedly lied about Patrick when asked to explain what she thought had happened. That's not a confession. It sounded more like a dream to me.


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[Vixen]

Yeah, so what?

And talk about being in denial. I've at least considered ALL the alleged evidence, unlike you who only believes bits and pieces that are all based on opinions and "evidence" that are taken out of context and also confirms your bias.


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You would be wrong. I followed the trial from Day 1 and also the murder from Day 1 it was first reported. I read the court transcripts that are available. The pair were found guilty in a criminal court of law, it was a fair trial and the convictions only overturned due to backchanneling by the US State Department and even Trump giving Knox a bung in legal fees. The acquittal was based on a trumped up technicality but the evidence during the trial was sound. In fact, it seems the strongest influence was Sollecito's barrister Bongiorno's strong mafia contacts and getting the court chambers changed from the Fifth Division (Serious Crime) to a lesser Number One Court specialising in business law.

In the merits hearing, the facts established the presence of Knox and almost certainly Sollecito at the crime scene. For goodness sake, Knox' shoe print in Mez' blood was found on the pillow case under the body. What is it you are unable to see?



As for the crime, the legal facts found at the merits hearing are sound and stand even today. Yu can use whatever semantics you wish and blame the police, the prosecutor and the courts but the merits hearing and the appeal hearing is all.




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[Vixen]

And BTW, you still haven't explained why the police immediately went out and arrested Patrick Lumumba w/o first doing an investigation?

That alone proves they were incompetent and once again also confirms your bias.


ETA: Once again (for the third time), you've obviously never read her alleged confession, especially since she allegedly lied about Patrick when asked to explain what she thought had happened. That's not a confession. It sounded more like a dream to me.


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Lumumba was arrested because Knox started screaming, 'He's bad, he's bad!' Even Solllecito could hear the theatrical racket from his interview room across the hallway.


It might provide comfort to you to blame the police but you are simply deluding yourself.


If you read the court reasoning regarding Knox' memo you would know that using flowery language doesn't conceal intent. Read the reasoning and then you will understand why her later claim she was in a dream fugue was rejected.



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[AmyStrange]

You would be wrong.

Of course I could be wrong, but at least I'm willing to admit it, unlike you.


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[AmyStrange]

Lumumba was arrested because Knox started screaming, 'He's bad, he's bad!' Even Solllecito could hear the theatrical racket from his interview room across the hallway.

Yeah, so what? They still went out and arrested the guy with no evidence. That proves incompetence to me.

Doesn't it make you wonder how truthful her coerced confession is if she allegedly lied about that?

It makes me wonder, but that's because I actually use critical thinking skills instead of just believing anything that confirms my bias.


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[Vixen]

Of course I could be wrong, but at least I'm willing to admit it, unlike you.


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All of this was dealt with in court at the merits hearings. You can blame the police but that is not what the courts upheld. Even if the police were less than efficient or ieffective, it doesn't cancel out the facts found at the merits hearings. Why would I need to claim the merits hearing findings were wrong? These are legal facts, the whole purpose of a trial. The prosecution's burden of proof was weighed up as having shown to be beyond resaonable doubt.


The pair were only acquitted because of political interference from the USA and mafia influence on Bongiorno's side.