Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Hercules56]

No. You, and only you, do not understand the definitions. Literally everyone else does.

Hmmm, seems a lot of people agree that it is not necessary to undergo any transitioning, in order to identity as transgender.

See my above post.

 

[Thermal]

Hmmm, seems a lot of people agree that it is not necessary to undergo any transitioning, in order to identity as transgender.

See my above post.

Correct. If you are TRANSGENDER, you can transition to your hearts content, or not at all.

If you are TRANSSEXUAL, you have by definition undergone the slice and dice. Earlier you did what is called "equivocating" them to make it sound like there was "EXTREME" disagreement, of which there is not.

You out of screen saver mode yet?

 

[Hercules56]

Correct. If you are TRANSGENDER, you can transition to your hearts content, or not at all...

And yet I am required to call a he a "she/her/miss/madam" even if he has undergone zero transition. Even with regards to social appearance and clothes. All that matters is how he identifies.

He can look like this:




How is that logical or reasonable?

 

[Thermal]

And yet I am required to call a he a "she/her/miss/madam" even if he has undergone zero transition. Even with regards to social appearance and clothes. All that matters is how he identifies.

He can look like this:

View attachment 59730


How is that logical or reasonable?

It's not, because you are making it up. It's imaginary.

You might always have some weird edge cases where a person's appearance doesn't jibe with what you think they should be called. That's just part of living with real people.

What skin would it really be off your nose to call someone who looks like a dude to you "miss" or "ma'am"? Seriously, does it compromise your soul? Challenge your insecurities?

Nothing about what someone wants to be called bothers me in the slightest. Nothing scares me about it. I don't get existential angst if someone who.looks like a guy to me wants to be called a she. It literally impacts me not a bit.

What *would* impact me is if I tried to knock someone else down a peg by asserting that they are what I say they are. That's a weakling's behavior. Not for me.

 

[Hercules56]

It's not, because you are making it up. It's imaginary.

Unfortunately is NOT imaginary.

Full transition, partial transition, no transition at all. Full facial hair, men's clothes, I am STILL required to call him a "she/her/miss" if that is his wish.

And if I don't, I am in trouble.

Clearly a 1st Amendment issue.

You might always have some weird edge cases where a person's appearance doesn't jibe with what you think they should be called. That's just part of living with real people.

What skin would it really be off your nose to call someone who looks like a dude to you "miss" or "ma'am"? Seriously, does it compromise your soul? Challenge your insecurities?..

It would challenge my intellectual honesty and integrity.

Something I care about deeply.

 

[Ron Obvious]

What skin would it really be off your nose to call someone who looks like a dude to you "miss" or "ma'am"? Seriously, does it compromise your soul? Challenge your insecurities?

Nothing about what someone wants to be called bothers me in the slightest. Nothing scares me about it. I don't get existential angst if someone who.looks like a guy to me wants to be called a she. It literally impacts me not a bit.

What *would* impact me is if I tried to knock someone else down a peg by asserting that they are what I say they are. That's a weakling's behavior. Not for me.

Strange logic to be reading this on sceptics' site. No, it's no skin off my nose to pretend God really created the universe either, if that's what the person I'm talking to really believes. I just don't see why I need to cater to the delusional in the name of politeness. Once we go down that path, there's no end to it.

 

[Thermal]

Unfortunately is NOT imaginary.

Full transition, partial transition, no transition at all. Full facial hair, men's clothes, I am STILL required to call him a "she/her/miss" if that is his wish.

And if I don't, I am in trouble.

Clearly a 1st Amendment issue.


It would challenge my intellectual honesty and integrity.

Something I care about deeply.

If you are being honest here, then you are ridiculously self centered. Like, toddler level. The world is not what you demand, and not subject to your declarations. It has nothing to do with "intellectual honesty and integrity". It has to do with understanding that other people are not you. They count too. I'll bet a trans person would be happy to refer to you by whatever pronouns you prefer. In fact, I've never even heard of one who would refuse to

 

[Hercules56]

If you are being honest here, then you are ridiculously self centered. Like, toddler level. The world is not what you demand, and not subject to your declarations...

Tell that to the transfolk who want me fined and suspended because I refuse to call them "miss" even though they have a beard and a dick bigger than mine.

 

[Ron Obvious]

If you are being honest here, then you are ridiculously self centered. Like, toddler level.
The world is not what you demand, and not subject to your declarations. It has nothing to do with "intellectual honesty and integrity". It has to do with understanding that other people are not you. They count too. I'll bet a trans person would be happy to refer to you by whatever pronouns you prefer. In fact, I've never even heard of one who would refuse to

This seems to sum up my criticism to the gender-affirming position pretty well.

 

[Hercules56]

This seems to sum up my criticism to the gender-affirming position pretty well.

◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ ironic ay?

 

[Thermal]

Strange logic to be reading this on sceptics' site. No, it's no skin off my nose to pretend God really created the universe either, if that's what the person I'm talking to really believes. I just don't see why I need to cater to the delusional in the name of politeness. Once we go down that path, there's no end to it.

Why? It's a form of address, nothing more. Casheirs call my scruffy ass "sir", but I feel confident that they don't think I'm a British knight, a military officer, or even a dignified gentleman. It's just a form of address, nothing more. Nobody is going to call you a "tranny lover" or whatever you are afraid of because you can conduct yourself in public with normal decorum.

 

[Hercules56]

Why? It's a form of address, nothing more. Casheirs call my scruffy ass "sir", but I feel confident that they don't think I'm a British knight, a military officer, or even a dignified gentleman. It's just a form of address, nothing more. Nobody is going to call you a "tranny lover" or whatever you are afraid of because you can conduct yourself in public with normal decorum.

You dont get to control my speech. That's called coercion. You dont get to fine me or suspend me because I refuse to call a guy "miss". At least not in the USA I remember from day's passed.

As you said "The world is not what you demand, and not subject to your declarations. "

 

[Thermal]

This seems to sum up my criticism to the gender-affirming position pretty well.

Really?

"I would like to be called a "she", because I have wrestled with my identity and find that this is what I am. Since it might understandably not be obvious to you, I'm letting you know that this is where I'm at. Because I walk it like I talk it, I will happily refer to you by the pronouns you prefer."

"◊◊◊◊ off, tranny. I said you're a guy."

 

[Hercules56]

Really?

"I would like to be called a "she", because I have wrestled with my identity and find that this is what I am. Since it might understandably not be obvious to you, I'm letting you know that this is where I'm at. Because I walk it like I talk it, I will happily refer to you by the pronouns you prefer."

"◊◊◊◊ off, tranny. I said you're a guy."

MORE LIKE : "Im really sorry, but there is a thing called Freedom of Speech and you dont have the right to force me to say something I consider to be intellectually dishonest."

 

[Thermal]

You dont get to control my speech. That's called coercion. You dont get to fine me or suspend me because I refuse to call a guy "miss". At least not in the USA I remember from day's passed.

As you said "The world is not what you demand, and not subject to your declarations. "

Absolutely. And?

Someone could be fat or ugly or a slut or a coward. In a workplace or other public scenario, no one gives a ◊◊◊◊ about your personal judgement of them, factual or otherwise.

 

[Hercules56]

Absolutely. And?

Someone could be fat or ugly or a slur or a coward. In a workplace or other public scenario, no one gives a ◊◊◊◊ about your personal judgement of them, factual or otherwise.

No judgement involved. Its just intellectual honesty.

But I personally would call someone "Susan" or "Michelle" or "Rachel", if that is there new chosen name.

But they cannot compel me to call them "miss/her/she".

 

[Thermal]

MORE LIKE : "Im really sorry, but there is a thing called Freedom of Speech and you dont have the right to force me to say something I consider to be intellectually dishonest."

Absolutely! You believe that being a self centered, judgemental douchebag is your God given Constitutional right. Have at it. For my part, I generally want to be cool to people, and am secure enough not to worry about people who don't conform to my ideas about what they should look like or be called. Chocolate and vanilla and all.

 

[Ron Obvious]

Really?

"I would like to be called a "she", because I have wrestled with my identity and find that this is what I am. Since it might understandably not be obvious to you, I'm letting you know that this is where I'm at. Because I walk it like I talk it, I will happily refer to you by the pronouns you prefer."

"◊◊◊◊ off, tranny. I said you're a guy."

He IS a guy. I didn't think we catered to delusions around here. Not even in the name of politeness.

"Oh sure, you really were sexually abused by a Satanic cult and then repressed the memory of it for years. You poor thing."
"Yes, Jane, you really are native American. Never mind the DNA results. It's true because you believe it, so go ahead and go for that Native American scholarship. You have my support!"
"No, of course evolution isn't the explanation for the diversity of life if that conflicts with your sincerely-held religious beliefs and that hurts your feelings. Don't worry about it, dearie."

I thought we preferred to deal with reality around here, and not comforting delusions.

 

[Thermal]

No judgement involved. Its just intellectual honesty.

But I personally would call someone "Susan" or "Michelle" or "Rachel", if that is there new chosen name.

But they cannot compel me to call them "miss/her/she".

There's literally no difference.

Try this: instead of thinking "she" is a word that refers exclusively to biological females (which seems to be at the root of your problems), think of "she" as meaning a pronoun which applies to people who feel like they are women. It really is that simple.

 

[Thermal]

He IS a guy. I didn't think we catered to delusions around here. Not even in the name of politeness.

"Oh sure, you really were sexually abused by a Satanic cult and then repressed the memory of it for years. You poor thing."
"Yes, Jane, you really are native American. Never mind the DNA results. It's true because you believe it, so go ahead and go for that Native American scholarship. You have my support!"
"No, of course evolution isn't the explanation for the diversity of life if that conflicts with your sincerely-held religious beliefs and that hurts your feelings. Don't worry about it, dearie."

I thought we preferred to deal with reality around here, and not comforting delusions.

I don't think it's a delusion. I think it is most often a hard wired identity.

Like, I'm left handed. The 90% +/- majority are not. Am I really right handed, but deluding myself? I don't think so. I'm just wired a little different than the majority. Same with trans people.