Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Ziggurat]

Nobody believes transwomen are women. Not even themselves. Some people just pretend to believe it, for various reasons.

I'm reminded of the observation that a lot of women will claim that Lizzo looks beautiful, but if you tell one of them that they look like Lizzo, they will take offense. They know it's a fiction, but you cannot threaten the fiction.

 

[Hercules56]

This is Danielle. She was born Daniel, but believes she is a woman born in a male's body, so has changed her name to Danielle.

She believes that the stereotypical concept of how a woman is supposed to dress, wear her hair, is a bigoted patriarchial social construct that should be torn down and not followed. SHE chooses to dress like this, as she sees herself as what some might call a "butch girl".

She demands to be acknowledged as a woman in all situations.

Do I really need to call Danielle a woman/her/Ms/she? Even though "she" looks like this?? Really? And I can be written up and sanctioned at my job if I refuse?

Wow.

 

[Thermal]

This is Danielle. She was born Daniel, but believes she is a woman born in a male's body, so has changed her name to Danielle.

She believes that the stereotypical concept of how a woman is supposed to dress, wear her hair, is a bigoted patriarchial social construct that should be torn down and not followed. SHE chooses to dress like this, as she sees herself as what some might call a "butch girl".

She demands to be acknowledged as a woman in all situations.

Do I really need to call Danielle a woman/her/Ms/she? Even though "she" looks like this?? Really? And I can be written up and sanctioned at my job if I refuse?

Wow.

View attachment 59716

Since that is a stock picture from Getty Images, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're just making up bull ◊◊◊◊ about imaginary people.

 

[Rolfe]

Probably. But that's not the point. Sex-realists aren't trying to dictate his language and have him sanctioned if he doesn't comply. We totally support his right to use whatever pronouns come naturally to him for anyone he happens to be talking about. The boot is entirely on the other foot. It is sex-realists who are being disciplined, sacked, forced to resign and charged with hate crimes for not complying with the compelled speech demanded by the trans cult.

The reality is, this is in fact Danielle (Muscato), who was born Daniel.



All we want is our freedom of speech to choose the pronouns we find instinctively appropriate when confronted with someone who is pretending to be what he (or she) is not.

 

[Hercules56]

Since that is a stock picture from Getty Images, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're just making up bull ◊◊◊◊ about imaginary people.

Sounds like you believe trans women are supposed to look a certain way. And if they don't look the way that you demand, their commitment to being transsexual should be questioned. And possibly rejected. Because you get to decide what a transsexual is supposed to look like. You get to decide what level of transition is appropriate before one should be considered trans-enough to be identified by the gender of their choice.

But what happens when someone decides not to follow your rules?

The rules at my company say as long as someone identifies as a different sex we must comply with their choice. Does not matter what they look like, or how much transition they have undergone. Even no transition whatsoever.

If Paul wants to be called a she, I must call him a she, even if he hasn't transitioned at all. He must be allowed to use the ladies room. And the women's locker room. And the women's shower. According to the rules.

All that matters is his declaration that he is now a she. I assume that needs to remain consistent but still that is all that matters.

 

[Rolfe]

I don't think Thermal is responsible for what is going on in your head.

It sounds as if your employer is completely captured by the gender cult and is compelling your speech. My commiserations. However, rest assured that this does not work the other way. Nobody on the sex-realist side has the slightest interest in policing your speech one way or the other.

 

[Hercules56]

I don't think Thermal is responsible for what is going on in your head.

It sounds as if your employer is completely captured by the gender cult and is compelling your speech. My commiserations. However, rest assured that this does not work the other way. Nobody on the sex-realist side has the slightest interest in policing your speech one way or the other.

Meh, the "sex realist" side is banning even the simple mention of homosexuality in schools from grade 1 to 12. Whitewashing all federal government web pages of mentioning gay people.

Two sides of the same stupid coin.

 

[Rolfe]

The USA seems to be a very peculiar place.

 

[angrysoba]

The USA seems to be a very peculiar place.

At least we can all agree on that.

 

[Thermal]

Sounds like you believe trans women are supposed to look a certain way.

Then, yet again, you ignored the post and made up an imaginary story.

What the post you were replying to very very clearly said, in words a slow child could understand, was that your story was total bull ◊◊◊◊.

 

[Thermal]

The USA seems to be a very peculiar place.

What's really happening, from my American boots on the ground perspective, is nothing but a lot of people tilting at windmills and warning us of dragons and monsters that... we don't see in real life. In real.life, we just go about our day. No drooling fake trans women skulking around locker rooms. No trans women masturbating in public. No pervs with wigs ready to pounce.

The places where this would be a threat are already neck deep in those kind of threats now, and have been for years, with no regard for the law.

 

[smartcooky]

Since that is a stock picture from Getty Images, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're just making up bull ◊◊◊◊ about imaginary people.

@Hercules56 set the trap... and you blundered right into and sprung it!

(Frankly, I didn't think Herc had it in him)

 

[Aber]

You can freely discriminate in a variety of circumstances without being a bigot. A gynecologist can say they will not perform an exam on a fully transitioned transwoman, because the hardware is not their department. Yet they are not bigoted at all. That's why the arguments of your hypothetical debaters falls flat.

Up to a point...

https://www.thetimes.com/world/euro...d-for-refusing-to-treat-trans-woman-ldtcjtsbz

 

[Hercules56]

Apparently there is some EXTREME disagreement within the community about how much transition a declared trans person must undergo in order to be acknowledged as being of the gender of their choice and not gender assigned at birth.

Some folks say if you have not transitioned medically or socially, you are NOT trans.

Others say ALL that matters is how you self-identify. There is ZERO need to transition at ALL, be it surgically, hormonally, even how you dress.

Basically one can declare themselves to be a transman or a transwoman, and still literally look like they used to be before declaring being trans.










So basically yes, a man can look like this and claim to be a transwoman.

 

[Thermal]

¹

Apparently there is some EXTREME disagreement within the community about how much transition a declared trans person must undergo in order to be acknowledged as being of the gender of their choice and not gender assigned at birth.

Some folks say if you have not transitioned medically or socially, you are NOT trans.

You forgot to read your own citation. It says, very very clearly in the highlighted, that you are not a TRANSSEXUAL if you have not undergone surgical transitioning. It's a simple, straightforward use of the language.

The sooner you wrap your head around the simple, practical, defined difference between sex and gender, the faster you will get up to speed.

Others say ALL that matters is how you self-identify. There is ZERO need to transition at ALL, be it surgically, hormonally, even how you dress.

Basically one can declare themselves to be a transman or a transwoman, and still literally look like they used to be before declaring being trans.

People don't "declare themselves" trans, or "choose it" as you keep saying. Did you choose what you think you are, or has it always just felt like it? And before you say it, yes, you are in the majority where your sex and gender line up. Not everyone is. Again, the sooner you wrap your head around this not-that-complicated idea, the faster this moves.

 

[Hercules56]

¹

You forgot to read your own citation. It says, very very clearly in the highlighted, that you are not a TRANSSEXUAL if you have not undergone surgical transitioning. It's a simple, straightforward use of the language.

The sooner you wrap your head around the simple, practical, defined difference between sex and gender, the faster you will get up to speed.

People don't "declare themselves" trans, or "choose it" as you keep saying. Did you choose what you think you are, or has it always just felt like it? And before you say it, yes, you are in the majority where your sex and gender line up. Not everyone is. Again, the sooner you wrap your head around this not-that-complicated idea, the faster this moves.

No, how you address someone depends on if they have declared themselves to be trans. They choose to transition, or not. They choose to be identified by a different gender assigned at birth, or not.

And for that matter:

Frequently Asked Questions about Transgender People | A4TE

transequality.org

 

[Hercules56]

...You forgot to read your own citation. It says, very very clearly in the highlighted, that you are not a TRANSSEXUAL if you have not undergone surgical transitioning. It's a simple, straightforward use of the language...

This is a rule that most do not adhere to. Or believe.

 

[Thermal]

No, how you address someone depends on if they have declared themselves to be trans. They choose to transition, or not. They choose to be identified by a different gender assigned at birth, or not.

And for that matter:

View attachment 59727

Frequently Asked Questions about Transgender People | A4TE

transequality.org

None of that has anything to do with what we were talking about. What we were talking about is that you don't seem to understand that "transsexual" has a distinctly different meaning than "transgender". Transsexual, by definition, means sex change surgeries. You are intentionally glossing over that and use the word "trans" to blur the distinction. It is very very obvious that you are aware of this.

 

[Thermal]

This is a rule that most do not adhere to. Or believe.

No. You, and only you, do not understand the definitions. Literally everyone else does.

 

[Hercules56]

What Do I Need to Know About the Transitioning Process?

Transgender people experience transitioning differently. Some transition socially, legally & medically, some only socially & some may not do any of these.

www.plannedparenthood.org