Batman returns to wage war on al-Qaida

[zakur]

Story

Holy terror, Batman! Gotham's under attack, and the caped crusader is the only one who can kick al-Qaida's butt.

That, in essence, is the plot of the latest Batman comic book by leading graphic novelist Frank Miller.

Speaking at a comic book convention in San Francisco at the weekend, Miller, the author of The Dark Knight Returns and the Sin City series, said Batman could ill afford to chase fantasy villains when the real thing was on his doorstep.

"Not to put too fine a point on it, it's a piece of propaganda," he said.

"Superman punched out Hitler. So did Captain America. That's one of the things they're there for.

"These are our folk heroes. I just think it's silly to have Batman out chasing the Riddler when you've got al-Qaida out there."

 

[Zbu]

I can't help but thinking of those comics that had our folk heroes 'slap a Jap' to buy war bonds, either. While Miller does have talent, I fear he's about to go all Mother Night on us. Propaganda can go both ways unless you make it explicit what your intention is.

Plus, wasn't there already a graphic novel with the 'Holy Terror' title?

 

[Dark Jaguar]

Did you just call a comic book a "graphic novel"?

 

[ImaginalDisc]

I can't help but thinking of those comics that had our folk heroes 'slap a Jap' to buy war bonds, either. While Miller does have talent, I fear he's about to go all Mother Night on us. Propaganda can go both ways unless you make it explicit what your intention is.

Plus, wasn't there already a graphic novel with the 'Holy Terror' title?

You mean, like Dr.Seuss's stuff?

http://www.superdickery.com/propaganda/9.html

And here's an old "Slap a Jap" Superman cover.

http://www.superdickery.com/propaganda/1.html

 

[Zbu]

Did you just call a comic book a "graphic novel"?

Actually, I meant that it was "published with a thick cover and possibly was either its own story or a compilation of comics"-kind of graphic novel. I wasn't using the term in its current definition that implies giving it some cred so some fat nerd with a complex can get away with reading them but at the same time being ashamed of it.

And yeah, this whole thing stinks of that 'Slap A Jap' nonsense combined with the newfound comic trend of being relevant. It didn't work when Spidey was mourning the World Trade Center, it sure as hell won't work now.

 

[Withnail]

Did you just call a comic book a "graphic novel"?

Is there a huge difference between calling a comic a book or a novel? Does novel mean "book for intellectuals"? Does Jackie Collins write books or novels then? That said, comics get a bad rap when romance novels and bad fantasy books are somehow considered a higher form of art. But maybe people are just as embarassed reading those.

 

[Zbu]

Eh, I dislike the current term for 'graphic novel.' Back in my day it was used for a bigger than usual comic with a sturdier cover and cost more. Some of the time it was only a storyline of a normal comic put together for some reason. So it goes.

But now some people want to use it as a general term for comics. These people also want to make comics more cinematic and adult-oriented to possibly justify reading them and to avoid the nerd stigma. Honestly, these are the people who need to grow up and finally admit that they still read comics and not be ashamed of it. The only thing that mindset has done is make comics horribly expensive, the story secondary to the art, and changed things to the point where everything is six issues long at $3 plus a hit. All because some people cared too much about what other people thought.

 

[Withnail]

Eh, I dislike the current term for 'graphic novel.' Back in my day it was used for a bigger than usual comic with a sturdier cover and cost more. Some of the time it was only a storyline of a normal comic put together for some reason. So it goes.

But now some people want to use it as a general term for comics. These people also want to make comics more cinematic and adult-oriented to possibly justify reading them and to avoid the nerd stigma. Honestly, these are the people who need to grow up and finally admit that they still read comics and not be ashamed of it. The only thing that mindset has done is make comics horribly expensive, the story secondary to the art, and changed things to the point where everything is six issues long at $3 plus a hit. All because some people cared too much about what other people thought.

AMEN, brother!

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

How about Ra's Al Ghul (the current one, Nissa, that is) selling biological weapons to Osma.

 

[tkingdoll]

If it stinks as louds as the sequel to Dark Knight Returns, then Miller can keep it, frankly.









ETA (that 'frankly' was not meant to be a pun, but now I see what I've done, I shall pretend it was deliberate)

 

[Skeptic]

There's an interesting article in "The New Criterion" about this:

http://www.newcriterion.com/weblog/armavirumque.html

We're now five years into a war, and no major Western studio has yet made a film in which a Muslim is a bad guy. In fact they've yet to even give us a film in which the good guys win and the bad guys get beaten up. The present war's movies range from Kingdom of Heaven ("there are a lot of fundamentalists about, Christians are the worst") to Munich ("if someone hits you and you're a Jew, stay perfectly still") and Flightplan ("if you're on a hijacked plane, odds are these days that the flight-crew, not Islamists, are to blame").

Also:

"Not to put too fine a point on it, it's a piece of propaganda," he said. "Superman punched out Hitler. So did Captain America. That's one of the things they're there for... 'Holy Terror'... is "a reminder to people who seem to have forgotten who we're up against", the author said.

 

[Zbu]

AMEN, brother!

Thanks! And now we'll pass the collection plate....kidding!

How about Ra's Al Ghul (the current one, Nissa, that is) selling biological weapons to Osma.

That would somehow fit into the comic at least. Still, having a mythical superhero go against a real terrorist under the guise of admitted propaganda (or rather, trying to covertly persuade or intimidate) is dishonest and insulting. I have no idea what Miller is doing but he seems to be one of those people who's willing to believe one thing until something bad happens and then flips to the other side out of pure animal fear and never reflects on that. That's a damn shame.

 

[Zbu]

There's an interesting article in "The New Criterion" about this:

http://www.newcriterion.com/weblog/armavirumque.html

Okay, Miller's gone off his rocker. So one of the uses of superheroes is to play Idealistic Superhero and to anger people into going into a particular political stance? Where was this a few years ago when this mattered? Or rather, if you're that concerned about the stance your government is taking, why not write a letter to your Congress reps and take it up with them?

The scary thing is, I think Miller just wants blood. He has little to no idea what's going on in the world and since Iraq is turning out to be a VERY BAD idea, he wants to take things back a few years to where America was right because buildings fell down and everybody else was wrong and must be stopped with violence. I'm not sure if that worldview is naive or pathetically stupid! Listen: Batman isn't going to stop a real life terrorist nor are angering people by surfboarding on a tragedy five years after the fact going to turn back time here. What's the point of having Batman or any fictional superhero go after them? It just comes off as a very strange wish fulfillment that maybe an artist with any sense would just draw to get it off his/her chest and then file it away somewhere. There's a very weird bigoted undercurrent to this whole thing, and it smells like someone doesn't want to get over a tragedy and think rationally and just wants to settle down in the dumb animal mindset of revenge. And that will get us nowhere.

 

[gypsynuke]

I can't help but thinking of those comics that had our folk heroes 'slap a Jap' to buy war bonds, either. While Miller does have talent, I fear he's about to go all Mother Night on us. Propaganda can go both ways unless you make it explicit what your intention is.

Plus, wasn't there already a graphic novel with the 'Holy Terror' title?

Yes, Batman: Holy terror is an elseworlds story where the church rules the world and Bruce Wayne becomes a priest. When he finds out the church had his parents killed, he becomes the Batman and starts punching altar boys.

 

[Skeptic]

Okay, Miller's gone off his rocker. So one of the uses of superheroes is to play Idealistic Superhero and to anger people into going into a particular political stance?

I don't see why Batman "fighting" Osama bin Laden should anger anybody. Superman "fought" Hitler; that, too, was a "particular political stance" but hardly a reason for anger.

Where was this a few years ago when this mattered? Or rather, if you're that concerned about the stance your government is taking, why not write a letter to your Congress reps and take it up with them?

There have been numerous anti-war artworks, papers, plays, rock concerts, etc., etc., etc., whose goal was to take issue with the government's actions. Should the artists or writers who wrote such things have not done so, because it would "anger" people by "taking a particular political stance"? Surely not.

I simply fail to see why anti-war sentiments shold be aired publically by artists but pro-war ones should not be in order not to "anger" people and not "take a political stance", or why making pro-war art is evidence that the artist is "off his rocker".

The scary thing is, I think Miller just wants blood. He has little to no idea what's going on in the world

Says who?

and since Iraq is turning out to be a VERY BAD idea, he wants to take things back a few years to where America was right because buildings fell down and everybody else was wrong and must be stopped with violence.

Er, the buildings didn't "fall down". They were destroyed by genocidally-minded suicidal Islamic terrorists. That is, I think, a rather good reason to think America is correct and bin Laden & co. are wrong.

I'm not sure if that worldview is naive or pathetically stupid!

"Miller disagrees with me".

Listen: Batman isn't going to stop a real life terrorist nor are angering people by surfboarding on a tragedy five years after the fact going to turn back time here.What's the point of having Batman or any fictional superhero go after them?

Well, at the risk of being called "Captain Obvious", how about drawing superman punching out Hitler in WWII cartoons? I suspect the artists DID know that superman is not, actually, going to defeat the real-life Hitler, being a fictional character and all. The point, however, in both times, was to keep up morale during dark times.

It just comes off as a very strange wish fulfillment

Comic books ARE wish fulfillment, as is most other escapist literature, but I don't see what's so "strange" about the wish that bin Laden and Islamism will be defeated.

that maybe an artist with any sense would just draw to get it off his/her chest and then file it away somewhere.

Yes, public displays of right-wing sentiments are horrible offensive and people should realize this and not flagrantly publish them for the public to see. "Neocon Zionazi Bush Murderer Chimp!" anti-war demonstrations, or the latest "Bush is Evil" play on Broadway, on the other hand...

There's a very weird bigoted undercurrent to this whole thing,

"Undercurrent of bigotry" = calling someone a racist and excusing the fact that there isn't any evidence of it by saying his bigotry is an "undercurrent". You might as well say there's an "undercurrent of child molestation" in Batman comics. Not that Batman (or anyone there) ever molests children, but there is Robin, and...

It's a charge that incredibly easy to make and impossible to disprove. How can you show that there isn't an "undercurrent of bigotry" in anything? The Mona Lisa is a white woman--I suppose this means there's an "undercurrent of racism" in that picture?

and it smells like someone doesn't want to get over a tragedy and think rationally and just wants to settle down in the dumb animal mindset of revenge.

"It smells like someone disagrees with me".

And we can't have public displays of that, can we?

 

[gypsynuke]

Thanks! And now we'll pass the collection plate....kidding!



That would somehow fit into the comic at least. Still, having a mythical superhero go against a real terrorist under the guise of admitted propaganda (or rather, trying to covertly persuade or intimidate) is dishonest and insulting. I have no idea what Miller is doing but he seems to be one of those people who's willing to believe one thing until something bad happens and then flips to the other side out of pure animal fear and never reflects on that. That's a damn shame.

When has Miller flip flopped on his stance on the war?
He's an artist and he's producing art. Please explain how

"having a mythical superhero go against a real terrorist under the guise of admitted propaganda (or rather, trying to covertly persuade or intimidate) is dishonest and insulting"

I'm not sure what you're up to but you seem to be one of those people who can't accept someone has a difference of opinion and may have some valid points, so you attack that person personally in attemp to discredit their argument. That's a damn shame.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

"Undercurrent of bigotry" = calling someone a racist and excusing the fact that there isn't any evidence of it by saying his bigotry is an "undercurrent". You might as well say there's an "undercurrent of child molestation" in Batman comics. Not that Batman (or anyone there) ever molests children, but there is Robin, and...
[/B]

Wait a second, Batman lives alone with a young man, and an old man. The old man calls him "Master Bruce", the old man calls the young man "Master Dick", but Batman's *not* doing Robin? Have you ever read a Batman comic?

 

[gypsynuke]

Wait a second, Batman lives alone with a young man, and an old man. The old man calls him "Master Bruce", the old man calls the young man "Master Dick", but Batman's *not* doing Robin? Have you ever read a Batman comic?

It's weird and awkward, but it's probably a safe bet Batman is not a member of NAMBLA.