What did Democrats do wrong?

[plague311]

We've been talking about a lot more than just sports. And the number of people affected is a lot larger than the number of trans people.

Cool, I was talking about more than sports too. I just used that as an example.

Affected how? Lay it out for me? I don't mean just people crying like a bitch about it. I mean women actually affected by what's happening. Not scared because of fearmongering, I'm talking actual, verifiable affects.

Your own math is bull ◊◊◊◊, and your appeal to math in the first place is dishonest and an excuse to ignore concerns.

I didn't give any math so what in the fresh ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ hell are you talking about? You and EC made up a bull ◊◊◊◊ number to imply that all women are affected and you're getting called out on it. In response you're doubling down with absolutely nothing.

Also, quit acting like you give a ◊◊◊◊ about women's rights. You're a Trump supporter. You guys are supporting him stripping away everything from abortion and reproductive rights to DEI related jobs. I'm sick of you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ people, even a self proclaimed "feminist" or whatever her newly found self label is, acting like you give a ◊◊◊◊. Save it for someone else. It's dumb as hell.

I've heard a lot more made up bull ◊◊◊◊ from the trans advocates than I ever have from the gender critical folk.

Lol "My confirmation bias leads me to agree with people on my side! So there!" is quite possibly the dumbest flex I've seen in a long time. Good on you for breaking it out. I haven't laughed like that since I was a little kid.

 

[plague311]

Oh hell yeah, I'd agree (with the caveat that you might not know they were trans if 'passing' well).

That's what I kind of meant though. If I literally didn't know and someone just took a ◊◊◊◊ or a piss in the bathroom and walked out and were trans then it had no affect on me. I didn't even notice.

But again, it's not the legit trans people. It's the pervs that could so easily exploit this. That's what the people in That Thread are digging into.

Yeah, I caught that and that's why I'm griping on the "50% of the population" nonsense. There's just no way in hell all women are pinching a loaf and thinking "God, what if a trans man comes in here now". It just doesn't happen. As an anecdote myself, I have a wife and a 22 year old daughter. I bet I could ask both of them if that was a concern and they'd say, "What the ◊◊◊◊ are you talking about?" So we can notch those two off the board right now.

Do you think pervs and Beavis are a real threat under self ID rules? I do, and can't see a way around it.

No, I don't. I'd need evidence it actually happens or that it's a true concern to women until I think that. In fact, I don't think about it at all. I have no reason to as it's not even on my, or my family's, radar.

But for sure this belongs on That Thread, not this one.

I'm not going there for any amount of money, but I'll happily stop the detour and report my own post.

 

[ahhell]

Its not just about Trans folks, its also about non trans male predators willing to pretend to be trans in order to gain access to women's spaces; locker rooms, prisons etc.

But in terms of what did the Dems do wrong. They responded to a question from activists that forced them to take a side on an issue that 80+% of the population is on the other side. That's just dumb. I mostly blame the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ that asked all the Dem candidates if they thought the US should pay for illegal immigrant prisoners' sex change.

Does the argument that it only impacts a small fraction of the population if we ban abortion after 24 weeks convince any progressives that its okay to do so?

 

[johnny karate]

Its not just about Trans folks, its also about non trans male predators willing to pretend to be trans in order to gain access to women's spaces; locker rooms, prisons etc.

But in terms of what did the Dems do wrong. They responded to a question from activists that forced them to take a side on an issue that 80+% of the population is on the other side. That's just dumb. I mostly blame the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ that asked all the Dem candidates if they thought the US should pay for illegal immigrant prisoners' sex change.

Does the argument that it only impacts a small fraction of the population if we ban abortion after 24 weeks convince any progressives that its okay to do so?

And that's why they voted for a sexual predator with terrible economic and public health policies: Because the safety and welfare of other people is very important to them. Flawlessly argued.

 

[Thermal]

That's what I kind of meant though. If I literally didn't know and someone just took a ◊◊◊◊ or a piss in the bathroom and walked out and were trans then it had no affect on me. I didn't even notice.


Yeah, I caught that and that's why I'm griping on the "50% of the population" nonsense. There's just no way in hell all women are pinching a loaf and thinking "God, what if a trans man comes in here now". It just doesn't happen. As an anecdote myself, I have a wife and a 22 year old daughter. I bet I could ask both of them if that was a concern and they'd say, "What the ◊◊◊◊ are you talking about?" So we can notch those two off the board right now.


No, I don't. I'd need evidence it actually happens or that it's a true concern to women until I think that. In fact, I don't think about it at all. I have no reason to as it's not even on my, or my family's, radar.


I'm not going there for any amount of money, but I'll happily stop the detour and report my own post.

Right, but the reason it's not on your/their radar is that it isn't really a global thing, just yet. Your daughter can get changed in a locker room and not have a naked man standing next to her. Fiat self ID isn't getting widespread abused, just yet.

 

[Donal]

Its not just about Trans folks, its also about non trans male predators willing to pretend to be trans in order to gain access to women's spaces; locker rooms, prisons etc.

The dressing room at Bergdoff Goodman's, the changing room of Miss Teen USA pageants, the training room of the Women's Gymantics Team, and the women's bathroom of any bar Ben Roethelsburger is at.

Oh, wait, those sexual assaults happened by men not pretending to be women. Weird how that works. It's almost like men looking to commit sexual assault don't actually concern themselves with being "allowed" somewhere.

But in terms of what did the Dems do wrong. They responded to a question from activists that forced them to take a side on an issue that 80+% of the population is on the other side. That's just dumb.

No, pretending that was a good-faith argument was dumb. It was dog-whistling to distract from the fact that you have no actual ideas on how to help the American people.

I mostly blame the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ that asked all the Dem candidates if they thought the US should pay for illegal immigrant prisoners' sex change.

Do you mean to enforce a law Donald Trump signed?

Does the argument that it only impacts a small fraction of the population if we ban abortion after 24 weeks convince any progressives that its okay to do so?

Pretty sure a significant chunk of the population is affected by women's healthcare laws. Oh look, a right-winger who has a strong opinion about things they don't understand.

 

[ahhell]

And that's why they voted for a sexual predator with terrible economic and public health policies: Because the safety and welfare of other people is very important to them. Flawlessly argued.

Couldn't possibly have swayed a single voter, I have been schooled.

In politics, yes, taking a stand on the opposite side of an issue from the majority will lose you votes and is usually considered a mistake. Walz was a mistake, ignoring the border was a mistake (I know they only ignored it for 3 years), pretending Biden was compos mentis was a mistake, nominating Harris was a mistake, responding to concerns about inflation with but the stock market is great and inflation isn't as bad as it was last year was a mistake. Did any one of those mistakes lose the election, no, but they were things the Dems did wrong. You can keep acting as so the Dems did nothing wrong but that's not going to win future elections. I hope that the Dems themselves actually try and figure out what they did wrong rather than just stick their fingers in their ears and repeat, "I'm not listening" or will end up with President Vance.

I haven't actually read any response to this in this thread that actually refuted the notion that these were mistakes, instead its all but Trump is worse. I agree, Trump is worse but that in no way shows that the Dems ran a flawless campaign. If they'd won the questions of "What did the Dems do wrong" is still a question worth asking and my response would probably be the same as it is now. Unless they won but not doing those things I listed.

ETA: if anyone actually believes they didn't make any mistakes, you probably out to leave the country because if they didn't, the US is hopeless and they will never win again.

 

[plague311]

Right, but the reason it's not on your/their radar is that it isn't really a global thing, just yet. Your daughter can get changed in a locker room and not have a naked man standing next to her. Fiat self ID isn't getting widespread abused, just yet.

That's quite literally fearmongering lol. "Well, this isn't a problem...but it will be!"

Even if we take this "slippery slope!" argument at face value it still doesn't negate my premise. In fact, you're reinforcing it. You're saying that 50% of the population isn't worried about this because it's not getting abused "yet". In fact, we have very little evidence that it ever will be other than being told it'll happen.

Yes, I'm sure you'll say something to the tune of "come on, bro. We're doods, we both know some guy will take advantage of this." As pointed out above, men don't need to go through the dog and pony show of dressing up like a woman to sexually assault someone or to even walk into a changing room.

My daughter can get changed without a naked man standing next to her because it has never happened and there's absolutely no evidence it ever will happen. If it does happen I would assume she'd just go change somewhere else. Like when she was being hit on at the gym in the locker room (hint, it wasn't a guy or trans person) and she didn't feel comfortable. She just got her stuff and left.

 

[plague311]

I haven't actually read any response to this in this thread that actually refuted the notion that these were mistakes, instead its all but Trump is worse.

Because that's how pointing out hypocrisy works. There's never been anything a Dem POTUS has done that's worse than what Trump is doing now, and going to continue doing.

Dems made a bunch of bad decisions, sure. Some of them you listed, but someone would have to make the argument, at some point, that Trump was going to do better. Spoiler, he hasn't and he had no history of even being a decent person let alone a decent POTUS. You can say Harris was a bad choice, but the choice was between Trump and Harris. Harris was a monumentally better choice than Trump. The economy was better under Biden\Harris, Trump's economy sucked in his first time. Go through your list of "Dems sucked at this" and tell me where Trump has done better. Should be easy. If you can't come up with something then those things the Dems did wrong shouldn't have been a factor because voting for Trump, or even letting him win by not voting, was a stupid choice.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Others addressed it but you people know the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ trans population is like a fraction of the overall population, right? Like a very, very small amount. In fact, I would bet that 60+% of the population never, ever run into a trans person ever. I think I read that there were a total of 10 trans athletes in all of college sports.

So yeah, you're math is bull ◊◊◊◊ and you guys are, again, just ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ making ◊◊◊◊ up to justify your ignorant nonsense. Take it to the appropriate thread.

Translation: I don't like what you're saying and I refuse to even consider it because it conflicts with my deeply held borderline-religious beliefs on the topic, so I'm going to call you names and then plug my ears and refuse to engage.

The problem here is that the evidence does exist, in droves, well supported... but it's all in the appropriate thread. And since you refuse to engage in that thread, you pretend the evidence does not exist. You have created a magical bubble for yourself where you never see any of the issues, and then because you have willfully shut your eyes to it... you feel righteously justified in be uncivil to those who are actually more knowledgeable than you.

 

[johnny karate]

Couldn't possibly have swayed a single voter, I have been schooled.

In politics, yes, taking a stand on the opposite side of an issue from the majority will lose you votes and is usually considered a mistake. Walz was a mistake, ignoring the border was a mistake (I know they only ignored it for 3 years), pretending Biden was compos mentis was a mistake, nominating Harris was a mistake, responding to concerns about inflation with but the stock market is great and inflation isn't as bad as it was last year was a mistake. Did any one of those mistakes lose the election, no, but they were things the Dems did wrong. You can keep acting as so the Dems did nothing wrong but that's not going to win future elections. I hope that the Dems themselves actually try and figure out what they did wrong rather than just stick their fingers in their ears and repeat, "I'm not listening" or will end up with President Vance.

I haven't actually read any response to this in this thread that actually refuted the notion that these were mistakes, instead its all but Trump is worse. I agree, Trump is worse but that in no way shows that the Dems ran a flawless campaign. If they'd won the questions of "What did the Dems do wrong" is still a question worth asking and my response would probably be the same as it is now. Unless they won but not doing those things I listed.

ETA: if anyone actually believes they didn't make any mistakes, you probably out to leave the country because if they didn't, the US is hopeless and they will never win again.

I've never said the Democrats didn't do anything wrong and in fact have pointed out multiple times that the biggest thing they did wrong was fail to adequately respond to and counter MAGA propaganda, some of which, coincidentally enough, made its way into your post.

My argument here is countering the plainly false narratives about what Democrats did wrong based on the reflexive desire to excuse anything and everything that Trump voters do while at the same time refusing to acknowledge their agency and personal responsibility.

Bottom line: If you argue that someone didn't vote for a candidate because of principles or polices they disagreed with, but that person voted for a candidate without principles and with demonstrably worse polices, there's a fatal flaw in the premise of your argument.

 

[dirtywick]

No. They are unashamedly corporatist. There is a difference.

on paper.

 

[Thermal]

No. They are unashamedly corporatist. There is a difference.

That's worse.

 

[dirtywick]

That's worse.

almost certainly not leftist or progressive in any way. for those holding to the wrong thing they did being that they went too far left

 

[theprestige]

That's worse.

Well yeah. Everything is worse than capitalism.

 

[Olmstead]

Capitalism works fine as long as it is regulated into submission.

 

[plague311]

Translation: I don't like what you're saying and I refuse to even consider it because it conflicts with my deeply held borderline-religious beliefs on the topic, so I'm going to call you names and then plug my ears and refuse to engage.

Yup, that's a textbook definition of a strawman. Thank you for providing that for us. Not sure what the ◊◊◊◊ it has to do with anything, but thanks.

The irony of someone who spends most their time on this forum dedicated to bitching about trans ◊◊◊◊ is now telling me I have borderline-religious beliefs about it? You have no self-awareness at all, do you? Keep playing the victim, it's the only thing you're good at.

The problem here is that the evidence does exist, in droves, well supported... but it's all in the appropriate thread. And since you refuse to engage in that thread, you pretend the evidence does not exist. You have created a magical bubble for yourself where you never see any of the issues, and then because you have willfully shut your eyes to it... you feel righteously justified in be uncivil to those who are actually more knowledgeable than you.

Take it to the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ thread.

 

[Thermal]

Well yeah. Everything is worse than capitalism.

Corporatism isn't bad by nature. In practice, it ends up being so. The wrong kind of corporate interests dominate, making more of a ..corpraratocracy? Not sure if that's the term. In any event, the only corporate bodies having influence are the ones wealthy enough to fatten our already morbidly obese fat cats. The Labor corporate collective can go pound sand in the face of the banking corporate collective.

 

[dirtywick]

i guess a labor corporate collective would be a union, and yeah they don’t like those. rather work with independent contractors they can abuse.

 

[johnny karate]

No. They are unashamedly corporatist. There is a difference.

Your boy hosted a Tesla commercial on the White House lawn. Tell me more about the evil corporatist Democrats.