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Cont: Electric Vehicles II

There's a Nissan video of a Leaf being driven through quite deep water in a tank. Also one of an EV, can't remember the make, being lowered into a tank of water and submerged.

The two things that would worry me are the door seals, or water getting into the cabin some other way, and saturating the upholstery and even the soundproofing, and the damn thing floating. Despite the heavy battery, if the cabin is reasonably well-sealed the car starts to behave a bit like a boat and gain buoyancy. You can see the MG4 start to float in Buttsbury Wash before its front wheels advance enough to get traction. If your car floats off in a current you're in all sorts of trouble. I don't know if manufacturers are really engineering the cars with these issues in mind.
 
Rolfe said:
There's a Nissan video of a Leaf being driven through quite deep water in a tank. Also one of an EV, can't remember the make, being lowered into a tank of water and submerged.

The two things that would worry me are the door seals, or water getting into the cabin some other way, and saturating the upholstery and even the soundproofing, and the damn thing floating. Despite the heavy battery, if the cabin is reasonably well-sealed the car starts to behave a bit like a boat and gain buoyancy. You can see the MG4 start to float in Buttsbury Wash before its front wheels advance enough to get traction. If your car floats off in a current you're in all sorts of trouble. I don't know if manufacturers are really engineering the cars with these issues in mind.
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This is when you need a propeller.
 
You could see in the video of the MG4 that its rear wheels were propelling it through the water to some extent.

 
acbytesla said:
Any ICE vehicle where the exhaust pipe is below the water line is prone to hydrolock. Use to do a lot of off road 4x4 driving in a 1985 Jeep Wagoneer.(wish I still owned it) We modified it so both the intake and the exhaust entered above the roof line. I could submerge that car and the engine would keep running.
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Exhaust underwater is fine as long as the motors still running lol, I had an old Series 1 Landy with a snorkel, that regularly went underwater to the extent I would have to use the hand throttle because I was floating off the seat!!!
Its exhaust was often a metre underwater by that stage lol
(most boats also have their exhaust underwater too lol)
 
I originally thought the exhaust was the issue and once went through a flood being careful to keep the revs up for that reason. I got away with it but I had no idea what the air intake was, where it was or why it was important. I was lucky. I only discovered the real situation recently.
 
Dabop said:
Exhaust underwater is fine as long as the motors still running lol, I had an old Series 1 Landy with a snorkel, that regularly went underwater to the extent I would have to use the hand throttle because I was floating off the seat!!!
Its exhaust was often a metre underwater by that stage lol
(most boats also have their exhaust underwater too lol)
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You're cheerful today ;)
 
Rolfe said:
I originally thought the exhaust was the issue and once went through a flood being careful to keep the revs up for that reason. I got away with it but I had no idea what the air intake was, where it was or why it was important. I was lucky. I only discovered the real situation recently.
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There's the difference between life experiences.
Trying to stuff my big hands and a wrench into small spaces to just test a connection or see if something is damaged somehow.

I have spent days taking wire harnesses off of junk I would have parted out were it mine.
Only to discover a wet module where some proud owner pressure washed the motor.
It sure looked clean at least.

Now with ev tech being a rapidly evolving technology I suspect more than a few current systems will go unused and unsupported in even two years. It happened with obd 1 to the current Canbus version used in 2025 models. More sensors, more automated controls, more wires than ever in the harness to the point where home fixing isn't possible. Cryslur running everything through a pair of computers from throttle to brakes, the horn and all the transmission functions....
If you lack the proper scanning software it's a boat anchor. Caterpillar and Case tractors went all computer ten years ago to meet emissions standards, the dealers pay 10 grand yearly for software updates to be able to repair new models.
All that gets passed onto the repair bills.

Ev won't be a lot different once it takes off.
 
I can hardly believe what has happened to battery prices. I bought 2 years ago 2 ea 12 volt 100ah Lifepo4 batteries at $325 a piece for my RV. These were no name Chinese batteries with a 100 amp BMS. They were supposed to have low temperature sensors that would shut off charging. But the sensors didn't work. Still, I thought it was a pretty good deal as they were $500 about 4 years ago. 2 weeks ago, I purchased 2ea 12 volt 300ah with a 200 amp BMS for the same price. 3 times the electrical storage. 7.68Kw for $700, For a thousand dollars it would be 11,5KW. Plus it can deliver 2400 watts to various appliances. Enough for a conduction cooktop.

Gotta love it.
 
8enotto said:
There's the difference between life experiences.
Trying to stuff my big hands and a wrench into small spaces to just test a connection or see if something is damaged somehow.

I have spent days taking wire harnesses off of junk I would have parted out were it mine.
Only to discover a wet module where some proud owner pressure washed the motor.
It sure looked clean at least.

Now with ev tech being a rapidly evolving technology I suspect more than a few current systems will go unused and unsupported in even two years. It happened with obd 1 to the current Canbus version used in 2025 models. More sensors, more automated controls, more wires than ever in the harness to the point where home fixing isn't possible. Cryslur running everything through a pair of computers from throttle to brakes, the horn and all the transmission functions....
If you lack the proper scanning software it's a boat anchor. Caterpillar and Case tractors went all computer ten years ago to meet emissions standards, the dealers pay 10 grand yearly for software updates to be able to repair new models.
All that gets passed onto the repair bills.

Ev won't be a lot different once it takes off.
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As someone who has gone through hell with my Chrysler, I can appreciate this sentiment. But it sure as hell doesn't have to be that way.
 
Meaning you have to stay by the car for five minutes then find somewhere else to park while you go and eat. Sounds familiar?
 
I love reading about new developments in EVs and batteries. But it also means I'm also constantly reading BS. Exaggerations and pure propaganda. Not to mention deliberate disinformation. Both from the proponents and its detractors.

Like from this company Aptera. They have been living off of pure vapor for decades. Started in 2006, they flooded the news with stories about their three wheeled car that would get the equivalent of 330 mpg. They sold this pipe dream on little more than drawings. But that excited enough people to jump aboard this endeavor. In early 2008 they said they would be shipping their first car by the end of the year. A few months later, they said they were too optimistic and late 2009 was a more realistic.
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But the truth is Aptera motors has always been more about promoting their vision than actually making their vision real. They seem great at putting out press releases and raising money and absolutely horrible at producing a vehicle for sale. Thousands of people have made deposits, they have received millions in crowd funding as well as hundreds of millions in government funding. They went bankrupt once and defaulted on a 130 million dollar government loan. Only to see the original founders somehow starting again in 2018. For the last 5 years they have promised that in the next year they will start selling their car. But it really that advanced. Dozens of EV car models have been made and have been selling. I'm convinced this will forever be a fraud.
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Pure scammers imho- like yourself, I have been watching them (on and off) saying they will be 'coming soon' and thats been longer than a decade...

In that same time, I know of one guy I used to live nearby that literally made his own EV from a Hilux in his back yard, and EV companies have made complete series of cars....
 
Dabop said:
Pure scammers imho- like yourself, I have been watching them (on and off) saying they will be 'coming soon' and thats been longer than a decade...

In that same time, I know of one guy I used to live nearby that literally made his own EV from a Hilux in his back yard, and EV companies have made complete series of cars....
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Exactly. It's a three wheeled enclosed electric trike motorcycle. These guys show off a prototype at conventions and are constantly releasing videos as well as look for funding sources. I've read they have received over the years 250 million in funds and delivered nothing but vapor.

It makes me angry that this can go on for so long.
 
acbytesla said:
Exactly. It's a three wheeled enclosed electric trike motorcycle. These guys show off a prototype at conventions and are constantly releasing videos as well as look for funding sources. I've read they have received over the years 250 million in funds and delivered nothing but vapor.

It makes me angry that this can go on for so long.
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Its not as if the concept is new (hell its just a Reliant Robin with an electric motor instead of a motorbike petrol motor lol) and its a market already saturated with existing models (and has been for a number of years...)
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All they want to do is slap a solar panel on the roof and call it 'innovative'- and they have been trying to do that for YEARS without success...

A total scam (they have blown through an incredible amount of money with no visible result)- it reminds me of the 'nolight' scammers sorry Brilliantlight... exactly the same 'model' of promising a lot 'soon' and never actually delivering...
 
I've heard about some outfit called Riversimple that keeps getting articles written about the amazing car they're developing and it's gone on for years and years and still no car.
 
Even if they don't have a vehicle, one would imagine that, if they had developed anything, any part of an EV, that was worth a bean, then they'd have been bought up by a big manufacturer by now. All they have is the grift
 
Meanwhile Edison in Canada is actively in business converting your already owned dream car into a hybrid or all E vehicle. Everything from heavy trucks to your beloved VW bug.
To your specs on what gen engine you prefer to the battery size and potential range.

That's where the future should lay for this mode of transport. Built to order for specific needs.
 
Several companies doing that in Britain. Electric Classic Cars has kits to do the more common models. Costs a fortune though, and although the results are impressive (the "Teslarossa" thing is amazing), EVs built from the ground up on a dedicated EV platform is the way forward for normal motoring. (And the future lies, it doesn't lay.)
 
I see a lot of people adapting thier needs to current availability of EV models.

Finding one with trailer pulling capacity for lack of small truck versions (depending on where you live) or wanting some quality your average four door sedan won't offer.

A lot of people in my area, and circle of friends , need that small truck but prices of cowboy caddilacs restrict the ability to get one. The other option is a clapped out Nissan or Ford Ranger that requires a new engine soon and still demands a fortune for rarity.
Emission laws in Mexico discourage fixing the old, encourage getting a new model by reducing taxes and related to keeping them legal. This isn't an accident.
EV doesn't fall under many of those costs, and undercuts the government monopoly that is everything petroleum with its added taxes.

Yet nobody seems to care to start conversions to existing models. Nor really get a charger network set up for commercial models. Nobody is saying they can't do it.


A 1990's into 2000's F150 or equivalent with the no options package and an ev upgrade would be the perfect solution for a lot of us. Just go through the suspension and brakes to freshen all that stuff up.
It has to haul goods, not transport princesses to the ball.

The relative higher cost of the conversion would be offset by no smog and much reduced petroleum taxes in a few years.
They would still need oils in the axles.
 
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