The Truth about RFK Jr

Chris_Halkides said:
From mikegriffith's link: "Trials not done against an inactive placebo." It has been explained in this thread more than once why an inactive placebo would be the wrong choice.
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And the explanation is unconvincing. Here's a balanced medical research article on the use of placebos in medical trials:

wakeresearch.com

The Truth About Placebos in Clinical Trials

Understanding the truth about placebo-controlled studies can help alleviate hesitation in participating in these trials. Learn more now.
wakeresearch.com wakeresearch.com

By the way, RFK Jr. is urging parents in Texas to get their kids vaccinated against the measles in response to the measles outbreak in the state, saying, “Vaccines not only protect individual children from measles but also contribute to community immunity, protecting those who are unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons.”
 
mikegriffith1 said:
And the explanation is unconvincing. Here's a balanced medical research article on the use of placebos in medical trials:

wakeresearch.com

The Truth About Placebos in Clinical Trials

Understanding the truth about placebo-controlled studies can help alleviate hesitation in participating in these trials. Learn more now.
wakeresearch.com wakeresearch.com

By the way, RFK Jr. is urging parents in Texas to get their kids vaccinated against the measles in response to the measles outbreak in the state, saying, “Vaccines not only protect individual children from measles but also contribute to community immunity, protecting those who are unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons.”
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From your link: "It’s important to remember that not every randomized, double-blinded controlled trial uses a placebo. Often, new treatments are compared to the standard of care, which could be another existing drug. Researchers do not use placebos to investigate drugs that have known, proven treatments (for example, placebos are rarely used in clinical trials for cancer patients). For studies that use placebos, several ethical considerations are involved when researchers design a placebo-controlled trial." What is unconvincing?
 
mikegriffith1 said:
By the way, RFK Jr. is urging parents in Texas to get their kids vaccinated against the measles in response to the measles outbreak in the state, saying, “Vaccines not only protect individual children from measles but also contribute to community immunity, protecting those who are unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons.”
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Of course you will use his op-ed as a convenient fig-leaf, but you forget that on the first page of this very thread you posted a bunch of links to websites of Del Bigtree, your own website and that of RFK Jr's claiming that MMR vaccine causes autism.

mikegriffith1 said:
Before you posted this, did you bother to read anything on the other side? I used to think just like you do about people who question vaccine safety, but then I decided I should read at least a few of their sources. There are plenty of medical scientists who support RFK Jr.'s concerns about certain vaccines, but you never hear about them in our Big Pharma-dominated news media. Have you read RFK Jr.'s thoroughly documented short book A Letter to Liberals? Have you read Senator (and Dr.) Rand Paul's book Deception: The Great COVID Cover-Up?

Here are some sources that are available online:

Statement of Former CDC Scientist William Thompson
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/...eblowers/the-statement-of-william-w-thompson/

ICAN Information Page
https://icandecide.org/get-informed/

Vaccine Safety and Policy
https://sites.google.com/view/vaccinesafetypolicy/home

If you read Dick Russell's book The Real RFK Jr., you'll see that he soundly debunks the myth that Kennedy's 2005 Rolling Stone article "Deadly Immunity" was "refuted by scientists." It was not, and has not been.

It's always a good idea, and in keeping with the principles of critical thinking, to read both sides of the story before reaching conclusions about it.

Finally, you should be aware that RFK Jr. has gotten all the standard vaccines except the COVID vaccine, and that his children have done so as well. He is not against vaccines per se; his main point is that vaccines should have to undergo the same safety trials that prescription drugs have to undergo.
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So you're giving us mixed messages here, Mike!

1. Do you or do you not support the MMR vaccine to control the current measles epidemic?

2. Do you or do you not support the MMR vaccine as a method of preventing future measles epidemics?

3. Should you have some concerns about the MMR vaccine and, along with RFK Jr, urge parents to get vaccinated against measles, would you argue that a future vaccine be tested against a saline solution placebo, knowing that those who are in the control group run the risk of measles infection, OR would you advocate testing it against the current vaccine?

Answers please!
 
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angrysoba said:
Of course you will use his op-ed as a convenient fig-leaf, but you forget that on the first page of this very thread you posted a bunch of links to websites of Del Bigtree, your own website and that of RFK Jr's claiming that MMR vaccine causes autism.
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Del Bigtree + MMR 💉 causes autism: A sure sign of antiscience antivaxxers.
angrysoba said:
So you're giving us mixed messages here, Mike!
1. Do you or do you not support the MMR vaccine to control the current measles epidemic?
2. Do you or do you not support the MMR vaccine as a method of preventing future measles epidemics?
3. Should you have some concerns about the MMR vaccine and, along with RFK Jr, urge parents to get vaccinated against measles, would you argue that a future vaccine be tested against a saline solution placebo, knowing that those who are in the control group run the risk of measles infection, OR would you advocate testing it against the current vaccine?
Answers please!
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Testing new vaccines against diseases for which vaccines already exist by using saline solution placebos is insane. Demanding this is another sure sign of antiscience antivaxxers.

Even though I live very far away from Texas, I took RFK Jr.'s advice and got the MMR 💉 this morning - just to be on the safe side. I remember having had both pertussis and chickenpox, but I never had measles, mumps or rubella and was never vaccinated against them until today.
The population in Denmark is pretty well vaxxed, so there is no real risk of getting any of the three infectious diseases as long as I stay in the country, but I would hate to expose myself to any of them unvaccinated during international travel - and unlike the Covid 💉, the MMR 💉 is one time only if you get is as an adult.
I'll let y'all know if I come down with a bad case of autism in the next couple of weeks ...

Welcome to the Resistance UCSF Doctors (Science-Based Medicine, Feb 28, 2025)
The many doctors who are just now realizing that misinformation wasn’t “COVID hysteria nonsense” have a lot of catching up to do to understand how the forces they’ve legitimized the led to this moment.
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Measles is back, and so are all the old antivax tropes about it (Science-Based Medicine, Mar 3, 2025)
RFK Jr.: Vaccines Not Only Protect Individual Children From Measles, But Also Contribute To Community Immunity (Science-Based Medicine, Mar 4, 2025)
“RFK Jr. switching sides on vaccines now is like an arsonist urging people to put out the fire he started.”
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dann said:
Del Bigtree + MMR 💉 causes autism: A sure sign of antiscience antivaxxers.

Testing new vaccines against diseases for which vaccines already exist by using saline solution placebos is insane. Demanding this is another sure sign of antiscience antivaxxers.

Even though I live very far away from Texas, I took RFK Jr.'s advice and got the MMR 💉 this morning - just to be on the safe side. I remember having had both pertussis and chickenpox, but I never had measles, mumps or rubella and was never vaccinated against them until today.
The population in Denmark is pretty well vaxxed, so there is no real risk of getting any of the three infectious diseases as long as I stay in the country, but I would hate to expose myself to any of them unvaccinated during international travel - and unlike the Covid 💉, the MMR 💉 is one time only if you get is as an adult.
I'll let y'all know if I come down with a bad case of autism in the next couple of weeks ...


Measles is back, and so are all the old antivax tropes about it (Science-Based Medicine, Mar 3, 2025)
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Yep. Surprised to hear you had never been vaccinated against measles etc…

Yeah, good idea to get it now.

Sadly, the worse things are the more the anti-vaxxers seem to get even if the health problems are their own making.
 
mikegriffith1 said:
And the explanation is unconvincing. Here's a balanced medical research article on the use of placebos in medical trials:

wakeresearch.com

The Truth About Placebos in Clinical Trials

Understanding the truth about placebo-controlled studies can help alleviate hesitation in participating in these trials. Learn more now.
wakeresearch.com wakeresearch.com

By the way, RFK Jr. is urging parents in Texas to get their kids vaccinated against the measles in response to the measles outbreak in the state, saying, “Vaccines not only protect individual children from measles but also contribute to community immunity, protecting those who are unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons.”
Click to expand...

RFK Jr hasn’t actually urged anyone to get the measles vaccine. He did say some true things about the measles vaccine - only after downplaying the outbreak, spreading misinformation, and now muddying the waters by presenting Vitamin A as an alternative treatment - but at no point did he explicitly urge anyone to get it and in fact frames it as a personal choice rather than a life-saving necessity.

angrysoba is correct. These half-measures are nothing more than a fig leaf he’s using because of the bad optics.

The anti-vaxxerism that killed that kid and hospitalized many more is the exact same anti-vaxxersim that RFK Jr spreads and that you promote in this thread.

Congrats on the dead child. (y)
 
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angrysoba said:
Yep. Surprised to hear you had never been vaccinated against measles etc…
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It's generational. I'm old enough to have had the smallpox💉, but too old for the MMR💉 to have been a part of the vaccine program. People in my age group were expected to have already had the infections when the vaccines appeared.
angrysoba said:
Yeah, good idea to get it now.
Sadly, the worse things are the more the anti-vaxxers seem to get even if the health problems are their own making.
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They appear to be pretty upset, especially the anti-💉 celebrities:
Has RFK Jr. betrayed the antivax movement? (Respectful Insolence, Mar 4, 2025)
Yesterday, I woke up to see an amazing op-ed in which longtime antivaxxer and now HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. issued a call to action that included the MMR vaccine. Has he gone pro-vax? Not exactly, but it’s amusing to watch his fans howl.
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dudalb said:
I think that RFK might be the first Cabnent member to go.
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This assumes that the Trump administration has any desire to at least cosplay as being remotely sane. There is little evidence that they care about it right now.

Let’s face it, he should never have even been on a short-list for this position. What can anyone expect from appointing an anti-vaxxer to head up healthcare?
 
One of the few things Donnie cares about is his image, and if RFK hurts htat out his goes.
He is much more vulnerable then a couple of other Cabinent choices, since this was a very cynical move by Trump, and he probably feels no loyalty toward RFK.\\
Sooner or later Trump iwll have to throw people to the wolves of public opinion, and RFK seems ripe for the victime.
 
dudalb said:
One of the few things Donnie cares about is his image, and if RFK hurts htat out his goes.
He is much more vulnerable then a couple of other Cabinent choices, since this was a very cynical move by Trump, and he probably feels no loyalty toward RFK.\\
Sooner or later Trump iwll have to throw people to the wolves of public opinion, and RFK seems ripe for the victime.
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I wish he would hurry up and kick him out then.
 

RFK Jr sparks alarm after backing vitamins to treat measles amid outbreak​

Robert F Kennedy Jr, the US health secretary, has caused alarm among pediatricians, vaccine experts and lawmakers with an opinion piece that focuses on vitamin A and nutrition as treatments for measles.

In response to a measles outbreak in Texas, which resulted in the first American measles death in nearly a decade, Kennedy wrote for Fox News about the benefits of “good nutrition” and vitamin A – but did not explicitly recommend highly effective vaccines.
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www.theguardian.com

RFK Jr sparks alarm after backing vitamins to treat measles amid outbreak

Health experts wary as US health secretary fails to endorse effective vaccines and instead calls them a ‘personal choice’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
As predicted.
 
johnny karate said:
I love how these dip ◊◊◊◊◊ think living a healthy lifestyle is this new radical thing they just thought up and is a panacea for any ailment.
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They seem to forget that their "healthy living" ancestors got sick and died in droves due to preventable diseases we vaccinate against today.
 
Today The New York Times reported, "As a measles outbreak expands in West Texas, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the health and human services secretary, on Tuesday cheered several unconventional treatments, including cod liver oil, but again did not urge Americans to get vaccinated. In a prerecorded interview that aired on Fox News, Mr. Kennedy said that the federal government was shipping doses of vitamin A to Gaines County, the epicenter of the outbreak, and helping to arrange ambulance rides. H.H.S. officials previously said they were shipping doses of the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine to Texas, but Mr. Kennedy did not discuss vaccination. Texas doctors had seen “very, very good results,” Mr. Kennedy claimed, by treating measles cases with a steroid, budesonide; an antibiotic called clarithromycin; and cod liver oil, which he said had high levels of vitamin A and vitamin D."

Recommending cod liver oil has no basis in experiments, to the best of my knowledge. I have a recollection of reading that antibiotics may help in secondary infections, but (and I am not a physician) budesonide sounds like exactly the wrong thing to use. Link: "Glucocorticoids, including budesonide, are immunosuppressant drugs. Patients who are immunocompromised are at a higher risk of developing infections than healthy individuals. Candida albicans, an opportunistic fungus, can overgrow in the genitalia of females with immunosuppression leading to vulvovaginal candidiasis; this is not a sexually transmitted disease. Infections like chickenpox and measles can run to a more serious and even fatal course in persons with suppressed immunity. If patients suffer exposure to chickenpox or measles infection, preventative treatment is indicated as appropriate, and if chickenpox occurs, treatment with antiviral medications may merit consideration."
 
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angrysoba said:
Of course you will use his op-ed as a convenient fig-leaf, but you forget that on the first page of this very thread you posted a bunch of links to websites of Del Bigtree, your own website and that of RFK Jr's claiming that MMR vaccine causes autism.



So you're giving us mixed messages here, Mike!
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Wrong poster. He's not Mike! He's mikegriffith1
 
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