Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Elaedith said:
So while we can acknowledge that many US organisations make claims of consensus, there is not an evidenced-based consensus.
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I can easily agree with all of that, but still disagree with the idea that "There is no 'both sides' to be debated here." The organizations which have been "drawing on poor quality and non-evidence based recommendations from the same sources and cross-referencing each other" still represent a majority of the relevant expertise in the U.S. and we've barely begun to start turning that ship astern. How can that possibly be done by pretending there is no debate to be had, as @smartcooky does?
smartcooky said:
When multiple organizations are all deriving their "consensus" from the same flawed studies and evidence, we can dismiss their consensus as flawed as well.
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Dismiss away; it won't help change any minds but at least it's effortless.
smartcooky said:
The Cass review pretty much spiked that consensus anyway.
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Right, because the AAP takes its marching orders from the NHS.

 
Emily's Cat said:
We have legal definitions of murder, manslaughter, and self-defense. None of them are 100% perfectly exactly right all the time, and disputes on whether a particular interaction constitutes self-defense or manslaughter or murder come up pretty regularly. When that happens, the edge cases are dealt with in context.
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We have detailed jury instructions for a good reason, there is nothing analogous thereto in the new guidance.
 
Brainster said:
And that is literally all that the trans issue is mentioned except towards the end when Vox sniffs a bit at the Daily Mail calling it a trans murder cult. Hell, maybe it's a vegan murder cult.
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I don't think we can make any reasonable generalizations about the rationalist community, the trans community, or the vegan community from these, um, exceptional individuals.
 
Some abrasive commentary from the contrarians at Spiked magazine...

Those of us who stood up to the imposition of woke on Britain were routinely smeared as being on the ‘wrong side of history’. But now the tide that laps this sceptered isle is turning. The Rude Awokening is afoot. All kinds of modish intersectionals are now claiming they never really believed in it. Up the Workers. Down the Wokers!

Still, there are some quislings who remain eager to sell out for a fistful of Yankee dollars. Not least Stonewall, the former gay-rights campaigners turned trans-activist ideologues. I was amazed to read in Pink News (so it must be true) that half of Stonewall’s staff will soon be cut, thanks to US president Donald Trump’s closure of USAID. Apparently, the poor US taxpayer coughed up half a million pounds to the UK charity over the past three years, via something called the Global Equality Fund.
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https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/02/26/how-terf-island-took-on-americas-woke-empire/
 
It's legit hilarious. All the TRAs accusing the women's rights groups of being funded by "dark money" from America (rather than crowdfunders and selling badges), and look who was actually being funded by secret money from America all along.
 
Rolfe said:
It's legit hilarious. All the TRAs accusing the women's rights groups of being funded by "dark money" from America (rather than crowdfunders and selling badges), and look who was actually being funded by secret money from America all along.
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Projection is a real thing!
 
d4m10n said:
I can easily agree with all of that, but still disagree with the idea that "There is no 'both sides' to be debated here." The organizations which have been "drawing on poor quality and non-evidence based recommendations from the same sources and cross-referencing each other" still represent a majority of the relevant expertise in the U.S. and we've barely begun to start turning that ship astern. How can that possibly be done by pretending there is no debate to be had, as @smartcooky does?
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The majority of relevant expertise regarding homeopathy in the US all agree that homeopathy is highly effective.
 
d4m10n said:
Fact check: False
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The "relevant expertise regarding homeopathy" are pseudo-clinicians who support homeopathy.

Basing your premise around "relevant experts" in a specific niche results in a tautology. And if you look under the hood, AAP and other us organizations are basing their positions on recommendations from 'relevant experts'... where 'relevant experts' are all people who fully believe in and support gender affirming medicine.

So yeah - all of the support in the US is based on trust granted to people who advocate for gender medicine.
 
d4m10n said:
Fact check: False
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That isn't relevant expertise as it is defined in gender medicine. The only people with relevant expertise in youth gender medicine are people who currently work in youth gender medicine, meaning people who support medical transition or minors, because everyone who doesn't has been cancelled. The equivalent is that only people currently practicing homeopathy are qualified to comment on the effectiveness of homeopathy.
 
Elaedith said:
That isn't relevant expertise as it is defined in gender medicine. The only people with relevant expertise in youth gender medicine are people who currently work in youth gender medicine, meaning people who support medical transition or minors, because everyone who doesn't has been cancelled. The equivalent is that only people currently practicing homeopathy are qualified to comment on the effectiveness of homeopathy.
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Yup.

Grifters voting to end the grift is about as likely as turkeys voting for Christmas/Thanksgiving.
 
Emily's Cat said:
The "relevant expertise regarding homeopathy" are pseudo-clinicians who support homeopathy.
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No, the relevant expertise in drugs (and pretend drugs which are really placebos) are professionals who evaluate the effectiveness of drugs.
Elaedith said:
The only people with relevant expertise in youth gender medicine are people who currently work in youth gender medicine, meaning people who support medical transition or minors, because everyone who doesn't has been cancelled.
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I'd argue that Hillary Cass and her academic partners have plenty of relevant expertise to evaluate medical interventions done on youth.
 
Rahm Emmanuel (former Chicago mayor, and most recently ambassador to Japan pre-Trump II) on Bill Maher's show:
I don't want to hear another word about the locker room, I don't want to hear another word about the bathroom. You better start focusing on the classroom.

In 7th grade if I had known I could have said 'they' and got in the girls bathroom, I would have done it.'
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I'd be willing to bet you that he would be ashamed of himself after seeing the reaction of the girls, but this is the sort of relatable comment that Democrats can use to disassociate themselves from the TRAs. If you offered 7th grade boys a tour of the girl's locker room while they were showering you'd be trampled in the rush.
 
d4m10n said:
No, the relevant expertise in drugs (and pretend drugs which are really placebos) are professionals who evaluate the effectiveness of drugs.

I'd argue that Hillary Cass and her academic partners have plenty of relevant expertise to evaluate medical interventions done on youth.
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Your argumentation frequently comes across as contradictory and inconsistent. Remember that this trail of posts originated from you saying:
d4m10n said:
Every American medical association disagrees with you, last I checked.

You can disagree with the expert consensus, but you cannot reasonably pretend they do not exist.
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From there, you went on to represent these various idiotic associations as being 'relevant experts' and you repeatedly seem to imply that the 'consensus' of these 'relevant experts' on 'gender medicine' should somehow have some weight.
 
Well, well, well. I sometimes watch the Electric Viking YouTube channel for news about what's round the corner in EV technology. Or rather, I usually just listen to the sound-track while doing other things. I played this one, which is titled "Woman with bombs after blowing up Teslas in the United States".


I didn't really think about the "woman" part, I was just interested in this mad craze for vandalising people's cars, and hoping it doesn't start here. But as I listened, I thought, I'll bet "Lucy" isn't a woman at all. So I flipped back to the tab to look at the video. And imagine my surprise, etc etc.

1741021403538.png

Sam is steadfastly referring to this person as "she" the entire time (Australia is pretty captured) but most of the comments are declaring "that's a man!"
 
Emily's Cat said:
From there, you went on to represent these various idiotic associations as being 'relevant experts' and you repeatedly seem to imply that the 'consensus' of these 'relevant experts' on 'gender medicine' should somehow have some weight.
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I'm not remotely embarrassed to say that the American Academy of Pediatrics should "somehow have some weight" in discussions about pediatric medicine, especially in the United States. That doesn't mean they are invariably correct, but it does mean we cannot reasonably pretend this debate is already settled, as some do.

Curious to know whether you thought calling them idiots would be persuasive or whether that is just venting on your part.
 
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d4m10n said:
I'm not remotely embarrassed to say that the American Academy of Pediatrics should "somehow have some weight" in discussions about pediatric medicine, especially in the United States. That doesn't mean they are invariably correct, but it does mean we cannot reasonably pretend this debate is already settled, as some do.

Curious to know whether you thought calling them idiots would be persuasive or whether that is just venting on your part.
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If you want to have a debate about whether or not CAIS should be defined as male or female, that debate belongs here not in this thread.
 
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