Prediction thread: What will the U.S. gov't do that most resembles the Third Reich?

[Stacyhs]

I think that's the point. According to all their publicity, ICE are all for forcibly deporting a whole lot of brown people. Yet people are conflating those with the stats for all "removals". Deportation does not necessarily mean a flashy ICE raid on a Mexican family with TV celebrities in tow.

That has nothing to do with your claim that “White Europeans are exempt from ICE roundups".

I don't disagree that the vast majority of illegal migrants are brown or black skinned and that they are being targeted, but that does not mean that white Europeans are exempt from ICE roundups.
White Europeans here illegally usually just arrive here legally and overstay their visas. They assimilate more easily and are harder to identify and find. You don't find white Europeans standing in groups by Costco waiting to be picked for a day job or picking lettuce or oranges.

Non-detained docket of immigrants with final orders of removal:​

Romania: 4445
Russia:3518
Canada: 1,290
Poland: 2303
UK: 1157
Ukraine: 1862
New Zealand: 166
Norway: 39
Sweden: 120
Germany: 571
Italy: 355
France: 402
Spain: 364
Australia: 261
Austria:60
Switzerland: 60
Ireland: 171
Greece: 211

 

[dirtywick]

I remember when W was called Hitler 25 years ago. I could never understand how one could minimize the slaughter of six million Jews during World War 2. The use of Hitler is at least 100 times worse with Trump. I have never been able to come up with words to describe this ability to trivialize the Holocaust.

Over the last 60 years, my father went from being a Republican to a right wing Republican, far right wing Republican, ultra right wing Republican, right wing conservative fundamentalist Christian, homophobe, Islamophobe, xenophobe, misogynist, racist, bigot, and finally becoming a Nazi. I guess that is progress, in a twisted sort of way. The big problem for Democrats, statists, media and academia is that after Hitler, there is nowhere else to go. And even though I am a non-voter, the same words and phrases can be used to describe me.

And not the best way to ask me to consider opposing views.

i'm confused if your dad actually became those things or it's just things people he was arguing with on the internet called him

i mean, there's definitely people walking around today that pretty recently began sig hieling and carrying nazi flags that weren't doing that 60 years ago. so they're out there. maybe one of them is your dad, idk

but there's definitely something to be said about the right wingers trying to guilt trip people into not talking about the ridiculous things trump is up to because it hurts their feelings and they'll just vote for increasingly more nazi like people until you're nicer to them

 

[arthwollipot]

When someone makes a claim, the onus is on them to support it, not the other way around. That's shifting the responsibility to the other person. You made the claim “White Europeans are exempt from ICE roundups", so it's up to you to provide evidence the evidence.

You do realise that you're asking Norman to prove a negative, right?

 

[Roger Ramjets]

but most of the Media is firmly in the hands of the Tech Bros who, though not a monolith, are all in lockstep when it comes to keep the unwashed masses in line. The efforts to control TikTok are very much aimed at bring it under the umbrella of US Tech Bro control.

As with all forms of Authoritarianism, the problem is that those who could stop the process have an invective to play along until they no longer have a choice.

Assertions like this shouldn't go unchallenged. Show us your evidence.

 

[dirtywick]

i think an answer to that depends on whether or not things like social media, and companies like google or apple, count as media in the hands of tech bros or not. i think they play a pretty massive role in spreading information and they are tech companies, and it's undeniable they have tremendous influence over public opinion, and can directly effect it. i would assume that's what that comment is in reference to.

 

[Stacyhs]

You do realise that you're asking Norman to prove a negative, right?

If someone makes a claim, they need to be able to provide evidence of it and not shift that responsibility.​

120 Swedes on the list – to be deported from the USA​

The figure of over 120 individuals from Sweden is on a list from the ICE authority, which works to protect the USA's borders from border crime and illegal immigrants, published by Fox News.

The individuals on the list have received their final notice to leave the country.
The immigrants on the list come from all corners of the world, although the majority are from Latin America. From the Nordic countries, there are 22 individuals from Finland, 120 from Sweden, 39 from Norway, 45 from Denmark, and 5 from Iceland.

During Trump's first administration, this 19-year-old in Boston was deported even though he was brought here by his parents legally when he was 12 years old but his visa waiver expired.

Undocumented Irish Caught In Trump's Immigration Dragnet​

A case in point — the unauthorized Irish in Boston.

"It's really indiscriminate. ICE, in their aggressive tactics of detention, are going after the Irish as much as they're going after any other nationality," says Ronnie Millar, director of the Irish International Immigrant Center in Boston.

O'Riordan was arrested for domestic assault and battery, but Brenna denied she had been assaulted. The county chose not to prosecute. O'Riordan had no prior criminal record, so the judge let him go.
Then, when he walked out of the holding cell, ICE agents were waiting for him. Someone in the courthouse had tipped them off. He has been locked up for four months now.

 

[Walter]

i'm confused if your dad actually became those things or it's just things people he was arguing with on the internet called him

i mean, there's definitely people walking around today that pretty recently began sig hieling and carrying nazi flags that weren't doing that 60 years ago. so they're out there. maybe one of them is your dad, idk

but there's definitely something to be said about the right wingers trying to guilt trip people into not talking about the ridiculous things trump is up to because it hurts their feelings and they'll just vote for increasingly more nazi like people until you're nicer to them

I find the progression of character assassination over the decades very interesting. Where do Democrats and statists go now? Where do you go from "Nazi like people"?

In 2007, when Trump was on reality TV, columnist Ellen Goodman (Americans will know the name) stated that people like me and the late Michael Crichton were the same as those who denied the Holocaust because we questioned whether the Industrial Revolution was a major factor in the geology of the planet.

This was not only character assassination, but a not so subtle attempt at bullying and intimidation. How did the Holocaust even enter Goodman's mental radar? So, Holocaust denial became a normal part of scientific "discourse". And now the Holocaust has become an integral part of political discourse. Am I to assume that Hitler will disappear when JD Vance is running in 2028? I am going to go out on a limb and guess no.

Again, how and why did Goodman consider trivializing the Holocaust? How does one even think about doing this? I spent several evenings in a Jewish Community Center library in California while my grandson was at basketball practice. I suggest that Goodman do the same.

 

[arthwollipot]

If someone makes a claim, they need to be able to provide evidence of it and not shift that responsibility.

No need to shout. In this case the claim was equivalent to claiming that there is no teapot orbiting Mars. You can't answer that claim by proving that there isn't. And you can't answer the claim that there are no white Europeans being deported by proving that there aren't. You answer the claim by demonstrating its opposite, which I believe you did in #141.

 

[dirtywick]

I find the progression of character assassination over the decades very interesting. Where do Democrats and statists go now? Where do you go from "Nazi like people"?

In 2007, when Trump was on reality TV, columnist Ellen Goodman (Americans will know the name) stated that people like me and the late Michael Crichton were the same as those who denied the Holocaust because we questioned whether the Industrial Revolution was a major factor in the geology of the planet.

This was not only character assassination, but a not so subtle attempt at bullying and intimidation. How did the Holocaust even enter Goodman's mental radar? So, Holocaust denial became a normal part of scientific "discourse". And now the Holocaust has become an integral part of political discourse. Am I to assume that Hitler will disappear when JD Vance is running in 2028? I am going to go out on a limb and guess no.

Again, how and why did Goodman consider trivializing the Holocaust? How does one even think about doing this? I spent several evenings in a Jewish Community Center library in California while my grandson was at basketball practice. I suggest that Goodman do the same.

i don't know who ellen goodman is or why you hold her opinion in such high esteem. but, i don't think history has been kind to the people outraged by the nazi comparisons. i think those worries of the past have been validated at least to a certain extent. unfortunately. which leaves me in a place where i'm more worried about what the republicans do next to make "nazi like people" less and less of an exaggeration and more and more accurate. because they've done an awful lot of the other way around so far.

but to answer your question, the hitler stuff probably dies down some when they stop being hitler-esque. the thing they never seem to try.

 

[Pixel42]

In 2007, when Trump was on reality TV, columnist Ellen Goodman (Americans will know the name) stated that people like me and the late Michael Crichton were the same as those who denied the Holocaust because we questioned whether the Industrial Revolution was a major factor in the geology of the planet.

This makes no sense, as no one has ever suggested that the Industrial Revolution was a major factor in the geology of the planet.

I know Michael Crichton was a climate change denier. That is comparable to being a Holocaust denier only in the sense that both are denying mountains of objective evidence.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

i think an answer to that depends on whether or not things like social media, and companies like google or apple, count as media in the hands of tech bros or not. i think they play a pretty massive role in spreading information and they are tech companies, and it's undeniable they have tremendous influence over public opinion, and can directly effect it. i would assume that's what that comment is in reference to.

'Tech companies' are not 'tech bros', and most of them are not 'Media' companies. Here's a list of the 10 largest tech companies in 2023:-
Amazon
Apple
Alphabet
Samsung Electronics
Foxconn
Microsoft
Jingdong
Alibaba
AT&T
Meta

Amazon is run by 'tech bro' Jeff Bezos, but isn't a 'Media' company. Apple is run by 'tech bro' Tim Cook, but it isn't a 'Media' company either. Sundar Pichai is a 'tech bro', but is Alphabet a Media company? Google is primarily a search engine with online advertising. You could say that YouTube is a media host, but it isn't producing the content (most of which is created by people like you and me). Samsung Electronics and Foxconn? Not media companies. Microsoft did have a stake in MSNBC, but gave it up in 2012. Jingdong, Alibaba, AT&T? Not media companies.

Meta (AKA Facebook)? Social media for sure, and Mark Zuckerberg is a tech bro. But how much is he controlling the media delivered on his platform?

Absent from that list is the most infamous 'tech bro' of all time, Elon (spit spit) Musk. And he does own X (formerly Twitter), a social media platform. But how 'hands on' is he with its content?

Meanwhile we have actual Media companies like Fox (run by Lachlan Murdoch, son of Rupert Murdoch), and Reuters, NBC, NYT etc. who have a huge influence over the news and are not controlled by 'tech bros'. I reckon we have more to fear from them trying to control the narrative than 'tech bros'. Indeed, much of what we think we know about those tech bros comes from the 'Mainstream Media'.

The Great Zaganza says "The efforts to control TikTok are very much aimed at bring it under the umbrella of US Tech Bro control."

But this is a lie. Many governments have attempted to control TikTok under the guise of it being a security threat, including China. This is authoritarianism for sure, but not the kind being suggested.

Here's the truth. Social media is being controlled by groups of authoritarians with enormous influence, the users - every one of them a liitle dictator trying to bend the world to their will. If a large enough number of them work in lockstep they have the power to cancel those they don't like, influence policy and even topple governments. Those are the real villains we should fear.

 

[dirtywick]

well i had a feeling nothing was going to count

 

[Roger Ramjets]

The OP asks "What will the U.S. gov't do that most resembles the Third Reich?"

The thing that most resembles the Third Reich is Trump's plans to annex neighbouring countries. However, unlike Hitler, Trump won't even get to first base. And instead of going out with a bang, it will be whimper. By the time he's finished he will have turned most the world against him, including Russia - another similarity. Finally, one of his enemies will emerge as the industrial powerhouse that becomes the leader of the 'free' world - China.

 

[Norman Alexander]

That has nothing to do with your claim that “White Europeans are exempt from ICE roundups".

I don't disagree that the vast majority of illegal migrants are brown or black skinned and that they are being targeted, but that does not mean that white Europeans are exempt from ICE roundups.
White Europeans here illegally usually just arrive here legally and overstay their visas. They assimilate more easily and are harder to identify and find. You don't find white Europeans standing in groups by Costco waiting to be picked for a day job or picking lettuce or oranges.

Non-detained docket of immigrants with final orders of removal:​

Romania: 4445
Russia:3518
Canada: 1,290
Poland: 2303
UK: 1157
Ukraine: 1862
New Zealand: 166
Norway: 39
Sweden: 120
Germany: 571
Italy: 355
France: 402
Spain: 364
Australia: 261
Austria:60
Switzerland: 60
Ireland: 171
Greece: 211

How many of those people are darker hued skin?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Assertions like this shouldn't go unchallenged. Show us your evidence.

When it comes to reach and eyeballs, I am 100% correct.
People are getting their news from places like Facebook, Twitter, Substack, YouTube and yes, TikTok.
And a big and growing chunk of MSM reporting is about regurgitating something their research team picked from these platforms because it had already enough traction, and thus probably valuable for advertisers.
Add to that the legacy media taken over by the Tech Bros like Bezos (WaPo), and the Think Thanks funded by them, and you have a situation where both the most influential people and the least influential people are getting their news courtesy of an ideologically very homogenous group of very rich people how made it big in the Tech sector.

 

[d4m10n]

Ok, so how many white Europeans have been rounded up?

I don't know, probably more than zero.

You do realise that you're asking Norman to prove a negative, right?

If there is an official policy about how to treat people based on race, then it had to be communicated all the way down the chain of command to the agents on the ground. Do you think that a policy illegally based on skin color wouldn't leak to the news?

 

[d4m10n]

I assumed Amy Strange was a woman, so I've made the same mistake.

I still think Emily might be a cat.

 

[d4m10n]

How many of those people are darker hued skin?

All of them, according to people with no evidence.

 

[Walter]

i don't know who ellen goodman is or why you hold her opinion in such high esteem. but, i don't think history has been kind to the people outraged by the nazi comparisons. i think those worries of the past have been validated at least to a certain extent. unfortunately. which leaves me in a place where i'm more worried about what the republicans do next to make "nazi like people" less and less of an exaggeration and more and more accurate. because they've done an awful lot of the other way around so far.

but to answer your question, the hitler stuff probably dies down some when they stop being hitler-esque. the thing they never seem to try.

Low esteem. The National Academy of Sciences should have taken out full page commentary condemning Goodman for injecting the Holocaust into a discussion about Anthropogenic Global Warming. In a nice, convenient way, all statists have to do today is trivialize the Holocaust and call me a science denier and political Nazi. Simple. Easy. End of discussion. Well, no discussion.

In 1979, I attempted to calm several people who feared that a B-movie actor from California would destroy the country. This fear was not called Reagan Derangement Syndrome back then. I told them that nothing was going to change. The size of the federal government, the budgets, the budget deficits and the national debt were all going to increase just fine. Nothing to worry about.

Privately, I thought Reagan just might surprise me by shutting down Carter's Department of Education and the Civil Service Commission (the federal government's personnel office). It is interesting that Trump is doing what Reagan should have done 45 years ago.

 

[Norman Alexander]

All of them, according to people with no evidence.

So you don't know? Do you think there are Europeans with darker skin? Whose ancestry could be Middle Eastern or African? Same as the USA?