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Split Thread Diversity Equity and Inclusion and merit in employment etc

Hercules56 said:
What is wrong with helping out historically marginalized and persecuted groups? Its called Justice.
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What's wrong is the idea that group identity trumps individual identity. Hell, even just in terms of history, it's shallow and ignorant. It doesn't distinguish between the descendants of blacks who owned slaves and blacks who were slaves. It doesn't distinguish between descendants of white slave owners and whites who escaped slave-like conditions in the Soviet Union, or Asians who escaped communist genocides. You cannot even measure all the historical injustices done in the past, let alone atone for them. You have to treat people as individuals, in the present. That's the only way to enact actual justice, and not just identity-based retribution.

And yes, you can still help people who have it rough because of historical injustices. But the proper way to do that is to help them because they have it rough. The children of a black billionaire don't need a leg up in society even if their ancestors were slaves. The children of poor white trash parents don't need to be discriminated against even if their ancestors were slave owners. If more blacks are poor than whites, then helping people who are poor will disproportionately help blacks. And that's OK. But you do that because they are poor, not because they are black.
 
arthwollipot said:
It's an improvement from only helping the poor white kids and ignoring the poor black kids - which was what was going on as you very well know.
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No, it's not what was going on. Poor black kids were very much not being ignored, before the advent of modern "DEI" policies. Deleting "DEI" from the federal administration won't delete any of those other programs and policies, nor the values that underpin them.
 
Ziggurat said:
What's wrong is the idea that group identity trumps individual identity. Hell, even just in terms of history, it's shallow and ignorant. It doesn't distinguish between the descendants of blacks who owned slaves and blacks who were slaves....
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Most blacks in the USA are not descended from black slave owners. MANY of them are descended from white ones. And almost ALL black people in the USA are descended from folks who suffered from terrible racism and discrimination and persecution that made upward social and economic mobility literally impossible, right up until the 1980s. Cant say that about most white folks.
 
Hercules56 said:
Do you support ANY actions or funding or programs to help undo the socioeconomic legacy caused by centuries of discrimination and persecution?
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Sure. The ones that don't require racial discrimination. I've already told you how that can be done.
 
Ziggurat said:
Sure. The ones that don't require racial discrimination. I've already told you how that can be done.
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Do you feel that job training, exam prep, student loans, community outreach that specifically targets black Americans, is racist and should be illegal?
 
Hercules56 said:
Do you feel that job training, exam prep, student loans, community outreach that specifically targets black Americans, is racist and should be illegal?
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Depends what you mean by "specifically targets". If it excludes other ethnic groups, not only is it racism, it is already illegal.
 
The following were banned at West Point:
The clubs disbanded by the academy are the Asian-Pacific Forum Club; Contemporary Cultural Affairs Seminar Club; Corbin Forum, a group for female cadets founded in 1976; Japanese Forum Club; Korean-American Relations Seminar; Latin Cultural Club; National Society of Black Engineers; Native American Heritage Forum; Society for Hispanic Professional Engineers; Society of Women Engineers Club; the Vietnamese-American Cadet Association; and Spectrum, which served LGBTQ cadets.

Read more at: https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2025-02-05/west-point-identity-group-ban-16728098.html
Source - Stars and Stripes
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Apparently, they aren't even allowed to meet on campus:
“Moreover, these clubs are not authorized to continue informal activities using Government time, resources, or facilities,” the directive stated.

Read more at: https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2025-02-05/west-point-identity-group-ban-16728098.html
Source - Stars and Stripes
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Is this the DEI you want to get rid of?

How about fraternities and sororities?

In the thread from hell, I've read some members concerned about trans-women getting roles and positions "set aside" for women. Should those "set-asides" be eliminated as well?
 
Ziggurat said:
Depends what you mean by "specifically targets". If it excludes other ethnic groups, not only is it racism, it is already illegal.
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Going to HBCs and majority black neighborhoods and doing outreach for job positions. You oppose this?

How about offering scholarships, free SAT prep., free remedial courses, just to people in zip codes with high concentrations of black people?
 
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