Does the Shroud of Turin Show Expected Elongation of the Head in 2D?"

[bobdroege7]

You do realise that some members here have actually studied science?

Yes, I realize that, and some members have suggested that I was suffering from Dunning Kruger disease when I quoted Max Planck.

Yes, and I do have a degree in science, and worked as an analytical chemist for some decades.

 

[bobdroege7]

No, you don't get to evade requests for you to substantiate your claims by changing the subject and trying to set tasks for others as a prerequisite. You claimed the room-temperature Maillard reaction had been replicated. The book you cite as the source does not seem to document this. Please provide a suitable citation or withdraw the claim.

You will have to get the book then, to see if he did replicate the formation of a shroud like image. I am pretty sure he did that in the book.

 

[bobdroege7]

Not even in the same millennium.

That's debatable.

 

[JayUtah]

You will have to get the book then, to see if he did replicate the formation of a shroud like image.

Hm, a carefully phrased answer. Did the author replicate the room-temperature Maillard reaction method of producing the image?

I am pretty sure he did that in the book.

Then since it's your source, please find the part of the book and give details here.

 

[KAJ]

Radiocarbon Dating of the Shroud of Turin
table 2, and the samples were far from random.

There were sampling errors, not statistical errors, which resulted in the failed chi^2 test. The test indicates that the sample were not homogenous, therefore not representative of the true age of the relic.

This claim was extensively covered in my post #341, which you haven't had the courtesy to acknowledge.

Overall it appears that you use statistics as a drunk uses a lamppost — for support rather than illumination.​

 

[arthwollipot]

Blind, but the labs could possibly identify which one was from the shroud.

Therefore, not blind.

Get it right, Jesus of the gospels was entombed, not buried. Like only covered with a shroud in a limestone dug out tomb. Not covered in dirt.

Which contradicts Jewish burial practice at the time.

Yes, I realize that, and some members have suggested that I was suffering from Dunning Kruger disease when I quoted Max Planck.

There is no such thing as Dunning Kruger disease. The Dunning Kruger effect is simply a cognitive bias that affects everybody, like confirmation bias or survivorship bias.

 

[junkshop]

Yes, I realize that, and some members have suggested that I was suffering from Dunning Kruger disease when I quoted Max Planck.

Yes, and I do have a degree in science, and worked as an analytical chemist for some decades.

Dunning Kruger isn't a disease.

ETA: Ninja'd by arthwollipot. It's really not fair that these antipodeans get to post from the future.

 

[bobdroege7]

This claim was extensively covered in my post #341, which you haven't had the courtesy to acknowledge.

Yes, I did not address that post, because it did not address specific limit for the chi^2 test which the radiocarbon paper posted.

Also, I should have posted that the control samples showed heterogeneity less than the limit, rather than no homogeneity.

So still you have not addressed the issue with the results of the radiocarbon paper with respect to homogeneity.

 

[JayUtah]

Yes, I did not address that post, because it did not address specific limit for the chi^2 test which the radiocarbon paper posted.

You rely a lot on not reading things.

 

[bobdroege7]

Sigh. Just accept you were wrong.
Even if you're talking about the entire Roman Empire the number of people crucified across the empire over five centuries is reliably estimated at three hundred thousand.

Quick math question: Is 300,000 within the range 50,000 to 2 million?

You need to read slower with more comprehension.

 

[bobdroege7]

You rely a lot on not reading things.

Still fails the chi^2 test, no matter how well I read.

 

[JayUtah]

Still fails the chi^2 test, no matter how well I read.

But you don't know that unless you actually read what people say to you and what other people have said about the statistical claims. You're dredging up really, really old stuff and pretending it hasn't already been addressed.

 

[bobdroege7]

Therefore, not blind.

Which contradicts Jewish burial practice at the time.

There is no such thing as Dunning Kruger disease. The Dunning Kruger effect is simply a cognitive bias that affects everybody, like confirmation bias or survivorship bias.

1st century practice was to inter the body in a tomb, and later, after about a year put the bones in a box. So what part contradicts Jewish burial practice?

Yes, it's the Dunning Druger effect, but that does not preclude someone from saying I have Dunning Kruger disease. And it does not affect everyone. Just those who get out over their skis.

Claiming the shroud is a painting is an example of getting out over your skis.

Or jumping to conclusions.

 

[bobdroege7]

But you don't know that unless you actually read what people say to you and what other people have said about the statistical claims. You're dredging up really, really old stuff and pretending it hasn't already been addressed.

There you go, accusing me of not reading the posts, I have read them all, some more than twice.

No I am not pretending it hasn't already been addressed, I have not seen an adequate explanation for the failure to pass the chi^2 test.

One thing, I commented on one of the previous shroud threads, then I made a post I thought was funny but not offensive. Not everyone agreed and I have not posted since on the topic. I thought it would be easy to date that event, but I don't know how long ago that was, and maybe some things I found googling are more recent. Some this year and last, so it's still controversial.

 

[arthwollipot]

1st century practice was to inter the body in a tomb, and later, after about a year put the bones in a box. So what part contradicts Jewish burial practice?

Draping a shroud over the body instead of wrapping them with it. I posted the traditional method earlier. You must have missed it.

And I have no idea what is meant by the phrase "getting out over your skis".

 

[JayUtah]

There you go, accusing me of not reading the posts, I have read them all, some more than twice.

You straight-up told me you didn't need to read one paper that you cited. When I asked about a subsequent paper, you deflected the question. Now you're telling us you don't need to address thorough, documented posts. I stand by my judgment. You rely on avoiding any sort of deep dive that would require you to read, understand, and explain your sources.

The chi-squared stuff you keep drumming on is very old news.

 

[JayUtah]

And I have no idea what is meant by the phrase "getting out over your skis".

In skiing, you should keep your center of gravity over your feet. If you lean too far forward or backward, you will lose control and fall. "Getting out over your skis" indicates leaning forward. Rhetoricaly it means to extend your argument beyond your understanding or beyond the evidence.

 

[junkshop]

1st century practice was to inter the body in a tomb, and later, after about a year put the bones in a box. So what part contradicts Jewish burial practice?

Yes, it's the Dunning Druger effect, but that does not preclude someone from saying I have Dunning Kruger disease. And it does not affect everyone. Just those who get out over their skis.

Claiming the shroud is a painting is an example of getting out over your skis.

Or jumping to conclusions.

There is no such thing as 'Dunning Kruger disease', you made that up out of whole cloth.

Speaking of whole cloth, 1st century jewish burial rites did not include draping a sheet over the body, rather the body would be wrapped in strips of cloth. As you have been told over and over again. As you have ignored over and over again.

You claim (if I understand you correctly) that the body that was wrapped in this cloth was Jesus, but not Christ, and was not dead.

OK, I'm on board with Jesus, if he existed (which I am unconvinced of, but that is a matter for a different thread [no pun intended]) not being the son of God. Thing is, I don't believe that any body, living or dead, left any image on this cloth.

There have been times when I have not changed my bedding as often as I should have, and marks/stains have been left on the fabric. Never have they been anything like the image on this cloth.

If what you claim is true then people would constantly be trying to wash portraits of themselves out of sheets, towels and flannels - but they aren't, are they? When was the last time you had to scrub an image of your face off your pillow case?

 

[catsmate]

Quick math question: Is 300,000 within the range 50,000 to 2 million?

You need to read slower with more comprehension.

Is two million people, around one percent of the population of the planet at the time, a reasonable estimate?

 

[catsmate]

Yes, I realize that, and some members have suggested that I was suffering from Dunning Kruger disease when I quoted Max Planck.

Yes, and I do have a degree in science, and worked as an analytical chemist for some decades.

Right......