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Does the Shroud of Turin Show Expected Elongation of the Head in 2D?"

Thermal said:
Ok, hold up. What doo rag? Are you referring to some other relic? Veronica's Veil or something?
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Actually the god botherers have claimed to have various bloody souvenirs and of course the "Holy Prepuce"......
 
catsmate said:
I forgot to correct this nonsense.

The population of Jerusalem around 30CE was around 40-50 thousand, swelling to 150-200 thousand for major festivals. A population of two million is utterly ludicrous; that would be twice the population of Rome, about one percent of humanity at the time, or more than three percent of the population of the Roman Empire.
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You know they crucified more than just Jews, and in more places than just Palestine. 2 million is an upper limit, do you understand that it is most likely less than that.

And it was for about 500 years, so it could be anywhere from 100 to 4000 per year.
 
JayUtah said:
There are significant problems with the logic you are using to arrive at this conclusion.
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You said please, so I will give it some thought.

"There are significant problems with the logic you are using to arrive at this conclusion."

I find this snarky myself, and politely request that you attack my arguments, or explain what is wrong with my logic.

You earlier said there were some assumptions I have wrong regarding the chi^2 test, maybe you could elucidate?
 
bobdroege7 said:
You know they crucified more than just Jews, and in more places than just Palestine. 2 million is an upper limit, do you understand that it is most likely less than that.

And it was for about 500 years, so it could be anywhere from 100 to 4000 per year.
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Sigh. Just accept you were wrong.
Even if you're talking about the entire Roman Empire the number of people crucified across the empire over five centuries is reliably estimated at three hundred thousand.
 
I think bobdroege7 is now arguing that Christ wasn't dead, and just left an image on his bed linen, as always happens when people sleep in a bed with sheets on it.
 
Thermal said:
@bobdroege7 , I'm interested to hear your hypothesis, but it's hard to understand what you are proposing.

Why would blood type AB be "the right type"?

If the man on the shroud is just some dude, why is it of interest beyond the quirk of how the image got there?

Does the Turin Shroud have any significance, or lend credibility to any counter theory, if it is not the Christian version as claimed?
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Because it is the same blood type found on the Sudarium, the face cloth from the entombment of the man in the shroud.
 
bobdroege7 said:
Well it actually has been replicated, I have a book somewhere that shows that, but I may have sold the book for crack.

This book https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Conspiracy-Turin-Shroud-Resurrection/dp/156619878X
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At least we know where you're getting your hypothesis that the archbishop of Turin switched the samples. My recollection, however, is that the book doesn't include any replication of the Maillard reaction at room temperature in ordinary time.

bobdroege7 said:
The Maillard reaction occurs at room temperature, but much faster when grilling steaks.
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Months faster, in fact. I'm aware of various proposals that a Maillard reaction somehow occurred in a short period of time. Where has the replication been scientifically reported?
 
catsmate said:
Actually the god botherers have claimed to have various bloody souvenirs and of course the "Holy Prepuce"......
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I'm willing to hear him out if he's answering in good faith, and with how hard he's getting slammed here I don't really blame him for getting short. But I do want to make sure that I understand what he is referring to.
 
bobdroege7 said:
Because it is the same blood type found on the Sudarium, the face cloth from the entombment of the man in the shroud.
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Ok, cool. I just want to make sure we have which relics we are talking about straight, as I don't want to make any bad assumptions that affect the argument.

There are at least a couple of them. Are you giving one more credibility than the others? And is it a problem that the shroud doesn't indicate a separate head wrapping?
 
zooterkin said:
What does that have to do with whether the samples were identifiable as coming from the shroud?

Do you think the people taking the samples were so stupid that they selected a portion that wasn't original?

How much contamination would be needed to change the result to be 1300 years newer? Have you done the sums?
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Well, it was one person who did the sampling.

"and G. Riggi, who removed the sample from the shroud."

" All these operations, except for the wrapping of the samples in foil and their placing in containers, were fully documented by video film and photography."

"The samples were then taken to the adjacent Sala Capitolare where they were wrapped in aluminium foil and subsequently sealed inside numbered stainless-steel containers by the Archbishop of Turin and Dr Tite. Samples weighing 50 mg from two of the three controls were similarly packaged. The three containers containing the shroud (to be referred to as sample 1) and two control samples (samples 2 and 3) were then handed to representatives of each of the three laboratories together with a sample of the third control (sample 4), which was in the form of threads. All these operations, except for the wrapping of the samples in foil and their placing in containers, were fully documented by video film and photography."

From the shroud paper https://www.shroud.com/nature.htm

Were they stupid or duped? The guy who did the sampling didn't see the packaging.
 
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Thermal said:
Ok, cool. I just want to make sure we have which relics we are talking about straight, as I don't want to make any bad assumptions that affect the argument.

There are at least a couple of them. Are you giving one more credibility than the others? And is it a problem that the shroud doesn't indicate a separate head wrapping?
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The one in Spain, the Sudarium of Oviedo.

No problem, they were not on the face at the same time.
 
JayUtah said:
At least we know where you're getting your hypothesis that the archbishop of Turin switched the samples. My recollection, however, is that the book doesn't include any replication of the Maillard reaction at room temperature in ordinary time.


Months faster, in fact. I'm aware of various proposals that a Maillard reaction somehow occurred in a short period of time. Where has the replication been scientifically reported?
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Quid pro quo

If you can show me a painting that looks more than superficially like the shroud.

For example, one that shows the serum separating from blood, like is shown on the shroud.
 
bobdroege7 said:
Quid pro quo
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No, you don't get to evade requests for you to substantiate your claims by changing the subject and trying to set tasks for others as a prerequisite. You claimed the room-temperature Maillard reaction had been replicated. The book you cite as the source does not seem to document this. Please provide a suitable citation or withdraw the claim.
 
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