Does the Shroud of Turin Show Expected Elongation of the Head in 2D?"

[catsmate]

So not impressed with your psycho babble.

Pathetic.
You never even bothered to read what Kearse wrote, did you?

Now, what about some evidence for blood being present on the cloth? Or your previous assertions? Remember,bl just because you want something to be true doesn't make it so.....

1. Evidence of statistical errors in the radiocarbon dating.
2. Evidence of contamination on the samples used for the radiocarbon dating.
3. Evidence of the sampled area being part of a patch.
4. Evidence of fraud on the part of Anastasio Ballestrero.
5. Evidence of limestone from Jerusalem.
6. Evidence of a connection between the shroud and the Pray Codex.

 

[catsmate]

Here from the original radiocarbon paper

"The laboratories were not told which container held the shroud sample. Because the distinctive three-to-one herringbone twill weave of the shroud could not be matched in the controls, however, it was possible for a laboratory to identify the shroud sample."

Blind, but the labs could possibly identify which one was from the shroud.

So what? That doesn't alter the results.


Now, as you brought up the "distinctive three-to-one herringbone twill weave" will you be supporting your assertion that such cloth existed in first century Palestine?

 

[bobdroege7]

What do you mean by "another Jesus?" Your argument specifically requires the image on the shroud to have been created by a man who did not die, so that it could be passed off as the falsely resurrected Jesus. This would make it a fairly uncommon outcome. How many of your 50,000 to 2 million were buried while still alive?


So what reaction made the image on the shroud?

Nobody is sure but the Maillard reaction between the sugars in the shroud and ammines from the body.

 

[JayUtah]

Nobody is sure but the Maillard reaction between the sugars in the shroud and ammines from the body.

At what temperature does the Maillard reaction occur? Why can't this be replicated with another living body and cloth?

 

[bobdroege7]

So what? That doesn't alter the results.

Can I answer somebody else's question with out you barging in.

Those are blood stains on the cloth.

It is clearly impossible for it to be a painting, because there is information on the shroud that a 14th century artist could not have known.

 

[JayUtah]

Can I answer somebody else's question with out you barging in.

You're debating the group. Adopt better manners.

Those are blood stains on the cloth.

Not according to any reliable determination.

It is clearly impossible for it to be a painting, because there is information on the shroud that a 14th century artist could not have known.

There are significant problems with the logic you are using to arrive at this conclusion.

 

[Thermal]

Can I answer somebody else's question with out you barging in.

Those are blood stains on the cloth.

It is clearly impossible for it to be a painting, because there is information on the shroud that a 14th century artist could not have known.

What information? If you mean the AB blood type being "the right one", we still don't have an answer as to why that should be considered right or wrong.

 

[zooterkin]

No, I am saying that the sampling was not acceptable. They sampled the cloth from the edge, where it was handled frequently, and possibly the site of a repair.

What does that have to do with whether the samples were identifiable as coming from the shroud?

Do you think the people taking the samples were so stupid that they selected a portion that wasn't original?

How much contamination would be needed to change the result to be 1300 years newer? Have you done the sums?

 

[catsmate]

No, I am saying that the sampling was not acceptable. They sampled the cloth from the edge, where it was handled frequently, and possibly the site of a repair.

Bollocks you're repeating the same inane lies.
There was no patch, the cloth was examined by experts before the sample site was chosen. The 'frequent handling' is a red herring, the samples were thoroughly cleaned, by the methodologies I enumerated, by experts before analysis.

Now, tell me @bobdroege7, given your "expertise" in radiocarbon dating, just how much contamination from (say) 1500 would be needed to alter a dating result from 33CE to (say) 1355.
Go on, show your work for once

 

[catsmate]

None of this addresses my post.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 12

 

[LDE1976]

The only new question that this thread answers is "what would happen if Neil Breen adapted a Dan Brown novel?"

 

[bobdroege7]

At what temperature does the Maillard reaction occur? Why can't this be replicated with another living body and cloth?

Well it actually has been replicated, I have a book somewhere that shows that, but I may have sold the book for crack.

This book https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Conspiracy-Turin-Shroud-Resurrection/dp/156619878X

The Maillard reaction occurs at room temperature, but much faster when grilling steaks.

 

[catsmate]

Can I answer somebody else's question with out you barging in.

You don't own this thread. If you don't like me commenting on your posts feel free to complain.

Those are blood stains on the cloth.

Repeating the same unsupported assertions don't make them true.

It is clearly impossible for it to be a painting, because there is information on the shroud that a 14th century artist could not have known.

Such as?

 

[bobdroege7]

So what? That doesn't alter the results.
View attachment 58956

Now, as you brought up the "distinctive three-to-one herringbone twill weave" will you be supporting your assertion that such cloth existed in first century Palestine?

Oh noes, what to do, another picture of the fatally flawed chalkboard.

 

[bobdroege7]

You don't own this thread. If you don't like me commenting on your posts feel free to complain.

Repeating the same unsupported assertions don't make them true.

Such as?

I did ask you politely, you were being rude.

Well, for one, the holes in the wrists rather than the palms.

Unless you can show me a painting from before 1350 that depicts the crucifixion that way.

I asked this before and got squat.

But there is more, answer this one first if you will.

 

[catsmate]

Estimates range from 50,000 to 2 million, a lot of them Jewish, so odds are in favor of another Jesus being crucified.

I forgot to correct this nonsense.

The population of Jerusalem around 30CE was around 40-50 thousand, swelling to 150-200 thousand for major festivals. A population of two million is utterly ludicrous; that would be twice the population of Rome, about one percent of humanity at the time, or more than three percent of the population of the Roman Empire.

 

[zooterkin]

Oh noes, what to do, another picture of the fatally flawed chalkboard.

Which numbers on that black board are wrong?

 

[catsmate]

Nobody is sure but the Maillard reaction between the sugars in the shroud and ammines from the body.

That's bollocks, again.

It's not even original bollocks, it's the long debunked bollocks of Ray Rogers forty years ago.

 

[bobdroege7]

What information? If you mean the AB blood type being "the right one", we still don't have an answer as to why that should be considered right or wrong.

Because it is the same blood type as on Jesus's doo rag.

 

[Thermal]

@bobdroege7 , I'm interested to hear your hypothesis, but it's hard to understand what you are proposing.

Why would blood type AB be "the right type"?

If the man on the shroud is just some dude, why is it of interest beyond the quirk of how the image got there?

Does the Turin Shroud have any significance, or lend credibility to any counter theory, if it is not the Christian version as claimed?