Ed Does anyone here believe that Princess Diana's car crash was suspicious?

[Matthew Best]

Here you go:

Diana: Just a car crash or a murder mystery?

Former Scotland Yard chief Lord Stevens will today reveal his long-awaited report into the death of the Princess of Wales. But will it silence the conspiracy theorists? Guy Adams reports

www.independent.co.uk

So how did the errant speeding motorist get a ticket when caught on a nearby camera 15-minutes prior to the accident?

Thanks for providing the source. It doesn't help much, but thanks anyway. The Independent story appears to be listing conspiracy theories about the death, and the "fact" that there were 14 cameras in the underpass is one of those. A speeding motorist being caught "on a nearby camera" doesn't tell us anything about cameras in the underpass. It doesn't tell us anything at all really.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Also as I already posted, in the 90s speed cameras were using rolls of film that took a photo when triggered by the sensor. it had to be removed from the camera and processed in a lab before the pictures could be viewed.
Camera films were only changed once a week or so.

The main system in use was the 'Gatso' type, this used a radar to measure speed and took two photographs at predetermined times that showed the distance a car had travelled across a series of marked lines on the road. From this distance and the time between the pictures a speed could be calculated.

The other main type was a 'head on' system that used buried sensors in the road that triggered a single picture at a set time after the sensors were crossed. If the picture showed the wheels were within a set of three closely marked parallel lines across the road then the speed reading was correct.

They both used old fashioned negative film. No video and no way to use them for any kind of surveillance.

 

[catsmate]

Um, no. Fayed is confirming 10 cameras on the route, which is also what the official report said, not 14 cameras in the underpass.

As for the rest of your wittering, I'm at a loss as to your point. No-one is denying the presence of some CCTV cameras at the time, merely that they were not as ubiquitous as they are nowadays.

And, a rather important point,that recording of CCTV was far less common.

 

[Vixen]

It just repeats Fayed's claims.

Where is the evidence for these 14 cameras in the tunnel?

As for a speeding ticket.

At the time speed cameras were old fashioned still image film cameras. They took a photo of a car that triggered the speed sensor and the film was collected and processed in a lab.
They were not video cameras.

So where are the stills?

 

[Vixen]

Yet again you're insinuating conspiratorial nonsense.
You cite a newspaper story, but neither it, nor you, provide any evidence to support the assertions.
Traffic cameras, of which there was one at the Place de l'Alma ,were unmonitored and unrecorded. This would have been common as sch cameras were used for daytime traffic management.

Grow up.

Woeful paucity of critical thinking skills here. I note that your ill-tempered insults are an indication of your lack of confidence in your assertions.

 

[Thermal]

Here you go:

Diana: Just a car crash or a murder mystery?

Former Scotland Yard chief Lord Stevens will today reveal his long-awaited report into the death of the Princess of Wales. But will it silence the conspiracy theorists? Guy Adams reports

www.independent.co.uk

From.the Independent article:

"Sources have claimed that they were turned to face the wall, or were simply switched off. The official French judicial enquiry into the crash was told that none of the cameras were working."

We know that it is factually false that the French judicial inquiry found that there were no cameras in the tunnel, and no cameras along the route were reported to be not working, posted upthread.

What this means, in plain English, is that the 2006 Independent article is factually and demonstrably untrue.

As dead zero other evidence of these malfunctioning and invisible cameras are presented, the claim can be dispensed with as false.

That was a lot of unecessary work to demonstrate piss poor reporting by the Independent, but it's a slam dunk at last.

 

[Vixen]

Thanks for providing the source. It doesn't help much, but thanks anyway. The Independent story appears to be listing conspiracy theories about the death, and the "fact" that there were 14 cameras in the underpass is one of those. A speeding motorist being caught "on a nearby camera" doesn't tell us anything about cameras in the underpass. It doesn't tell us anything at all really.

Think harder.

 

[Vixen]

Also as I already posted, in the 90s speed cameras were using rolls of film that took a photo when triggered by the sensor. it had to be removed from the camera and processed in a lab before the pictures could be viewed.
Camera films were only changed once a week or so.

The main system in use was the 'Gatso' type, this used a radar to measure speed and took two photographs at predetermined times that showed the distance a car had travelled across a series of marked lines on the road. From this distance and the time between the pictures a speed could be calculated.

The other main type was a 'head on' system that used buried sensors in the road that triggered a single picture at a set time after the sensors were crossed. If the picture showed the wheels were within a set of three closely marked parallel lines across the road then the speed reading was correct.

They both used old fashioned negative film. No video and no way to use them for any kind of surveillance.

That is terribly interesting. Henri Paul was travelling at twice the speed limit - probably even faster before the tunnel approach, which involves a quite sharp right turn into it.

It was travelling at an estimated speed of 105 km/h (65 mph) – more than twice the 50 km/h (31 mph) speed limit of the tunnel. It then spun, hit the stone wall of the tunnel backwards and finally came to a stop. wiki

So, where are the stills?

 

[Vixen]

And, a rather important point,that recording of CCTV was far less common.

Poor logic.

 

[Thermal]

That is terribly interesting. Henri Paul was travelling at twice the speed limit - probably even faster before the tunnel approach, which involves a quite sharp right turn into it.



So, where are the stills?

As posted upthread, the Paris Urban Traffic Unit closes at 11PM. Their cameras are shut down at that time. No one anywhere has ever reported getting a ticket from that camera after 11PM. Because it is shut down for the night, as it is on all nights.

 

[Vixen]

From.the Independent article:

"Sources have claimed that they were turned to face the wall, or were simply switched off. The official French judicial enquiry into the crash was told that none of the cameras were working."

We know that it is factually false that the French judicial inquiry found that there were no cameras in the tunnel, and no cameras along the route were reported to be not working, posted upthread.

What this means, in plain English, is that the 2006 Independent article is factually and demonstrably untrue.

As dead zero other evidence of these malfunctioning and invisible cameras are presented, the claim can be dispensed with as false.

That was a lot of unecessary work to demonstrate piss poor reporting by the Independent, but it's a slam dunk at last.

Again a non sequitur. Here is a picture of the traffic camera at the head of the tunnel in Paris, claimed to have been taken in 1998.

Why were the traffic cameras not working at the Point d'Alma ?​

In April 1998, l took advantage of a visit to Paris to photograph the site of the car crash at the Point d'Alma which killed Princess Diana. Prominent in position overlooking the crash site, was a traffic camera, which on the day he was there, was facing the entrance to tunnel where the Diana's car crashed. Of course, it is possible that the camera, at the moment of the crash, it was facing a different direction. However, according to the Lobster (winter 1999), there are rumours that electricity supplies in the road tunnel were cut off 25 minutes before Diana's Mercedes entered it. It could be for this reason, as Lobster notes, that the CCTV cameras covering the crash site both before and after the crash were not working.

STRATO - Domain not available

www.fantompowa.net

Of course, a lot of this speculation is unsubstantiated silliness. However, do you really believe there were no traffic cameras near the tunnel? So presumably, drivers are free to speed through it knowing they can't be caught. Obviously this defies common sense.

 

[Vixen]

As posted upthread, the Paris Urban Traffic Unit closes at 11PM. Their cameras are shut down at that time. No one anywhere has ever reported getting a ticket from that camera after 11PM. Because it is shut down for the night, as it is on all nights.

So when bartholmewwest said the cameras were turned off, he was correct?

 

[Thermal]

Again a non sequitur. Here is a picture of the traffic camera at the head of the tunnel in Paris, claimed to have been taken in 1998.

View attachment 58807

STRATO - Domain not available

www.fantompowa.net

Of course, a lot of this speculation is unsubstantiated silliness. However, do you really believe there were no traffic cameras near the tunnel? So presumably, drivers are free to speed through it knowing they can't be caught. Obviously this defies common sense.

I literally just addressed that specifically, and did so repeatedly long upthread, with links to the official report (which the CT claims is the origin).

Eta: regarding the reasoning for shutting cameras down after 11PM, that's simple mechanical sense. The longer the sensors are actively monitoring, the sooner they will wear out and need to be replaced. The old fashioned and outdated sensors are not cheap. The Paris Urban Traffic Unit presumably found that the cameras were not picking up enough speeders after 11PM to warrant the extended monitoring, so shut them down after that time as a matter of frugality.

 

[Thermal]

So when bartholmewwest said the cameras were turned off, he was correct?

No. He claimed, in black and white, that 14 were malfunctioning.

There was one camera, functioning normally, and turned off per it's normal schedule. There is nothing remotely unusual about that.

 

[zooterkin]

So where are the stills?

That is terribly interesting. Henri Paul was travelling at twice the speed limit - probably even faster before the tunnel approach, which involves a quite sharp right turn into it.



So, where are the stills?

When did you establish that he passed a working speed camera while breaking the limit?

 

[Thermal]

Here is BartholomewWest's original claim:

Didn't 10 or 14 traffic cameras mysteriously "malfunction" that day in Paris? That alone makes me wonder. My mother has cameras outside of her home. Cheap ones, at that. They have NEVER broken down. Maybe they get a little bit of interference.

I just can't believe that the French government has cameras worse than what my mother has. And they only seem to break down when a celebrity is killed.

While he hides behind the fig leaf of "didn't X happen?", he argues at great length about this supposed malfunctioning and insistence that these many cameras existed and were monitored by the city of Paris for many many pages here.

It took me all of two minutes or so to fact check the claim, and see that it was a lie. Not a misunderstanding, not a matter of interpretation. Just flat out dishonesty or stupidity. There's no credible middle ground for believing this claim.

 

[Andy_Ross]

So where are the stills?

What stills? Fromthe speed camera? they would only ashow the front or back of a car as it passed the sensor, it's the number plate they are photographing.
If they still exist they will be in the speed enforcement office archive.
What do you think a speed camera photo would show?

 

[Andy_Ross]

That is terribly interesting. Henri Paul was travelling at twice the speed limit - probably even faster before the tunnel approach, which involves a quite sharp right turn into it.



So, where are the stills?

What stills? Why do you think he passed a speed camera?

Where were they situated?

What do you think the stills would show? the back of a car to show the numberplate and the lines on the road if there was a speed camera on his route.

 

[Andy_Ross]

As posted upthread, the Paris Urban Traffic Unit closes at 11PM. Their cameras are shut down at that time. No one anywhere has ever reported getting a ticket from that camera after 11PM. Because it is shut down for the night, as it is on all nights.

Speed cameras aren't manned ,they are still cameras triggered by a car passing the radar sensor, or in the case of the head on camera the wire loops in the road. They take in the case of the radar rear facing type two pictures a fraction of a second apart or in the case of the head on, a single picture.

 

[Thermal]

Speed cameras aren't manned ,they are still cameras triggered by a car passing the radar sensor, or in the case of the head on camera the wire loops in the road. They take in the case of the radar rear facing type two pictures a fraction of a second apart or in the case of the head on, a single picture.

...yes, that's how they work.