Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

@acbytesla : Why do you keep insisting that we want to crap on anyone? I've been arguing that we should be able to find a solution that works for everybody.

Many here feel that allowing trans women in female spaces is not actually a problem. The issue is Beavis and Butthead pervs exploiting this newfound access, for jollies or much worse. I think that's a valid concern, and the pervs might well outweigh the legit trans women affected.

What do you think of those concerns? No projection of malice, just that fear that women might have of being exploited?

And regarding your assumed 'othering' by the use of 'them', please consider that I have kids, and I love them.
 
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theprestige said:
Counterpoint: There are always a few groups that really do need to be crapped on, for the good of society.

Anti-science, anti-women, homophobic trans rights extremists are pretty near the top of my list of such groups. They're not even good for people who have gender dysphoria and are seeking social acceptance.
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I guess that depends on whether you're being crapped on or doing the crapping.

If we're talking about NAZIs or pedophile priests I'm pulling my pants down now. But if you're talking about crapping on anyone who is just going about their life in a way that works for them, I think you're the one who needs a dump taken on.
 
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theprestige said:
Counterpoint: There are always a few groups that really do need to be crapped on, for the good of society.
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To expand on this....

theprestige said:
Anti-science,
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That would be people who deny that sex is binary...

theprestige said:
anti-women
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That would be people who want the members of a tiny minority (trans-self-identified males) to be allowed to trample all over the rights of 50% of the population (women)...

theprestige said:
homophobic trans rights extremists
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That would be most, if not all of them...

theprestige said:
are pretty near the top of my list of such groups. They're not even good for people who have gender dysphoria and are seeking social acceptance.
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They are near the top of mine too, right up there with conspiracy theorists, racists and paedophiles.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Seriously?? You don't get that all these anti-trans activities are based solely on peoples' feelings towards them?
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My feelings towards them are as follows

If my daughters, grand daughters, or any of the women in my life that I care about

- were to ever become a victim of domestic violence, they would be able to go to a women's shelter without the risk they could find themselves confronting a biological male cosplaying as a woman on the staff or at the shelter.

- were to even be raped or sexually assaulted, they would be able to go to a rape crisis centre without the risk they could find themselves confronting a biological man who has claimed to be a transwoman on the staff or at the shelter.

- were ever to use a public restroom or changing shed at a gym or swimming pool, they would not find themselves confronted by biological male pretending to be a woman, waving his schlong around and leering at them.

- were ever to end up in a women's prison, they would not find themselves in a place where male prisoners have been sent because they have successfully conned prison authorities into believing they have girly feels.

- when they are involved in sports, they don't find they have to compete against biological males who have conned their way into a women's division by claiming transgender self ID because they cannot hack the pace in the men's divisions.
 
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smartcooky said:
My feelings towards them are as follows

If my daughters, grand daughters, or any of the women in my life that I care about

- were to ever become a victim of domestic violence, they would be able to go to a women's shelter without the risk they could find themselves confronting a biological male cosplaying as a woman on the staff or at the shelter.

- were to even be raped or sexually assaulted, they would be able to go to a rape crisis centre without the risk they could find themselves confronting a biological man who has claimed to be a transwoman on the staff or at the shelter.

- were ever to use a public restroom or changing shed at a gym or swimming pool, they would not find themselves confronted by biological male pretending to be a woman, waving his schlong around and leering at them.

- were ever to end up in a women's prison, they would not find themselves in a place where male prisoners have been sent because they have successfully conned prison authorities into believing they have girly feels.

- when they are involved in sports, they don't find they have to compete against biological males who have conned their way into a women's division by claiming transgender self ID because they cannot hack the pace in the men's divisions.
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Do you honestly believe that a Transwoman is any more dangerous to any of your daughters than any male they might go out on a date with? Is a transwoman any more likely to commit a violent crime than any male?
 
acbytesla said:
I guess that depends on whether you're being crapped on or doing the crapping.
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You guess wrong. It depends on the ideas you're promoting and how you're promoting them. Trans Rights Extremists get crapped on by me and others, because they're promoting really bad ideas in really toxic ways.
acbytesla said:
If we're talking about NAZIs or pedophile priests I'm pulling my pants down now. But if you're talking about crapping on anyone who is just going about their life in a way that works for them, I think you're the one who needs a dump taken on.
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I'm not crapping on "anyone who is just going about their life in a way that works for them". I'm crapping on people who are promoting values and policies that are anti-social, anti-science, objectively misogynistic, and homophobic.

For example, you'll notice that I don't crap on people who say that discriminating against gender expressions should be prohibited in housing, employment, etc. I agree that such discrimination should be banned. I fully support everyone who feels that way.

Who I do crap on are the people that say that men should be entitled to women's spaces and categories, on no other basis than because those men say they want to. That position arises from and embodies an entire paradigm that is toxic and harmful to everyone. Please be honest enough to acknowledge the distinction I'm making. Please be honest enough to not pretend I'm crapping on people who don't deserve it.

ETA: I'm not even really crapping on transwomen as such. A lot of the people I despise in this debate aren't trans, they're just misguided or sociopathic "alliles" who are doing actual gender dysphorics dirty with their insane agenda. The only time I'm crapping on an actual transwoman, it's not because they're trans, but because they're enacting the insane agenda. I don't hate Lia Thomas because he's trans. I hate Lia Thomas because he's an antisocial, misogynistic dickhead. It's possible to be the former without being the latter, but Lia Thomas has chosen a different path.
 
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acbytesla said:
Do you honestly believe that a Transwoman is any more dangerous to any of your daughters than any male they might go out on a date with? Is a transwoman any more likely to commit a violent crime than any male?
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His daughters have the freedom to decline dates with men they don't trust, and to walk away from encounters that they are uneasy about. Trans Rights Activists would remove that freedom, by law, from what have traditionally and legally been safe spaces for smartcooky's daughters.
 
acbytesla said:
Do you honestly believe that a Transwoman is any more dangerous to any of your daughters than any male they might go out on a date with? Is a transwoman any more likely to commit a violent crime than any male?
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And another thing: I honestly believe that a transwoman is far more dangerous to a female cellmate than another female cellmate would be. And I honestly believe the data backs me up. Because yes, as bizarre as it seems, this has already been tried.
 
theprestige said:
And another thing: I honestly believe that a transwoman is far more dangerous to a female cellmate than another female cellmate would be. And I honestly believe the data backs me up. Because yes, as bizarre as it seems, this has already been tried.
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Is that transwoman being incarcerated with men more dangerous to them? Is it more dangerous than it is to other men?
 
acbytesla said:
You didn't address the question.
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You're right. I have a low tolerance for rhetorical questions, especially on the subject of trans rights in public policy, especially when these specific issues have been hashed out several times in this thread already. Instead, I've just skipped straight to the part where I tell you what I think about the issue. It's faster and simpler and much clearer that way.

If you want to make a safety-based argument that males should be entitled to be housed in women's prisons if they say they want that, then make that argument. It will save us both a lot of time and effort if you just get to your point, rather than trying to trickle it out one question-and-answer at a time.

---

Socratic dialog doesn't really work, in a contentious debate between peers. Honestly, I'm not sure it works at all, outside of Plato's parables.
 
It wasn't rhetorical. It was just one you knew that the answer didn't support the safety question.
 
acbytesla said:
I've always been amazed at the insecurities of people. The desperation to maintain at least one group that they can crap on and maintain being socially acceptable is an interesting phenomenon.
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I on the other hand am amazed by posters who are so blinded by ideology that they pretend to be able to read minds, inferring negative motivations. Highly unimpressive.
 
Rather than adopt the Cass inquiry recommendations, Australian government has ordered a review into puberty blockers and other treatment of children, with preliminary findings delivered by mid 2026

www.abc.net.au

Federal government orders review of treatment guidelines for trans kids

The Albanese government has ordered a review of the Australian standards of care and treatment guidelines for trans and gender-diverse children and adolescents.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

This is gutless pandering to trans lobbyists in my view. Hopefully states will make their own decisions, like Queensland has in stopping damaging and irreversible puberty blockers.
 
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acbytesla said:
Do you honestly believe that a Transwoman is any more dangerous to any of your daughters than any male they might go out on a date with? Is a transwoman any more likely to commit a violent crime than any male?
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Actually, transgender identified males are more likely to commit sexual crimes than other males. This is documented. Studies done in Sweden (Finland?) looking at long-term criminality and offending patterns for transgender individuals found that transgender identified males offended at levels the same or higher than other males, which is magnitudes higher than the rate at which females offend. Transgender identified females offended at rates higher than other females, but lower than the rate of male offending. Both the US and UK have documented that incarcerated transgender identified males have committed sexual offenses at a materially higher rate than other males.

But for argument's sake... let's say that they don't offend at higher rates. Let's assume for the moment, that transgender identified males commit violent and sexual offenses at the same rate as any other male.

If that were the case... exactly what is your argument for demanding that such males have the right to use female restrooms, showers, spas, and change rooms alongside females without the consent of those females? What's your argument for expecting that such males be placed in female prisons? Why would you support allowing males to have carte blanche access to places where females are naked or vulnerable?
 
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