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Ed Does anyone here believe that Princess Diana's car crash was suspicious?

It's hard to find the right words to convey how barren is my field of ◊◊◊◊◊ regarding how Charles and all these others get their rocks off.

I am interested though in how you orchestrate a murder like this. That Mitchell and Webb Look video at the very beginning of the thread lampoons it perfectly. I mean, were the killers challenging themselves to pull of the most implausibly difficult execution imaginable?
 
Regarding "cameras were literally everywhere even in 1997" I rather think this is a failure to appreciate just how fast things have changed in recent years, and back when Diana died, video was analogue and if you wanted to record it you needed a video tape recorder, not a computer. I can remember discussion in this forum (probably on a 9/11 thread) about what a weird outlier London was because it had started sprouting cameras in the streets, like something out of communist China. And I didn't even join this forum until 2009, so that rather dates it.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
Those of us whose only knowledge of what Europe at the time was like is having been adults living in Europe at the time are lucky to have the benefit your insight to tell us what Europe was actually like at the time.
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Quite.

When Barry Horne firebombed Broadmead in Bristol in 1996 Broadmead (a large city centre shopping centre) was not over-run with cameras. Horne was caught because he was already under police surveillance.

As an aside Carrot Flower Queen was actually in Broadmead at the time.
 
Even here in the States, it was super freaky in the early 2000s to see traffic cameras being installed. Everybody was up in arms about the Patriot Act getting carried away.

And since France has been brought up, I am compelled to say that no matter what anyone says of France or the French, it is a wonderful, beautiful country, as are its people, IMMHO.
 
Thermal said:
And since France has been brought up...
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Again, it's so long ago now it's hard to remember that the reason France suddenly became the butt of innumerable American jokes, and the toe-curling term "freedom fries" was coined, was resentment that they had the audacity to suggest invading Iraq didn't sound like a brilliant idea. Seems so quaint now.
 
Vixen said:
Hey wait. Isn't that a bit sexist? Charles picked a naive young woman of eighteen to act as a brood mare, to do his life's career of producing an heir and a spare (preferably both male), whilst she apparently was under a romantic illusion of being in love and an old fashioned wife. Charles was consorting with people like Lord Mountbatten, Reverend Ball and Sir Jimmy Savile, all characters associated with paedophilia. Charles married soppy young Diana whilst all the time he was carrying on with a married RC woman married to someone else. I mean Camilla is probably a beard IMV and Charles has to be seen to be 'respectable' can't have young darling boys to-ing and fro-ing from his chambers. So if you are going to slut shame Diana, have a go at the person who drove an emotionally unstable young lady over the top in the first place.
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Fair enough, actually.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Regarding "cameras were literally everywhere even in 1997" I rather think this is a failure to appreciate just how fast things have changed in recent years, and back when Diana died, video was analogue and if you wanted to record it you needed a video tape recorder, not a computer. I can remember discussion in this forum (probably on a 9/11 thread) about what a weird outlier London was because it had started sprouting cameras in the streets, like something out of communist China. And I didn't even join this forum until 2009, so that rather dates it.
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But how can that be? Just look at this.


See how Orwellian Paris was? And this was just a hotel.
 
BartholomewWest said:
But how can that be? Just look at this.


See how Orwellian Paris was? And this was just a hotel.
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As mentioned earlier, a small private indoor security system, fairly new on the mass market even then. Worlds away from a city wide outdoor surveillance grid, that had not really taken hold anywhere yet, and certainly not in Paris.
 
BartholomewWest said:
No but my wife has been to Europe numerous times.

She went to Poland and said that Poland has literally ZERO privacy. There is a camera in every single nook and cranny, just like in America.

Or even worse.
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Have you heard any theorists or investigators challenging the French government, saying "what about the cameras we have identified at these locations X, Y, Z, etc? Why hasn't their video been released?"

You know why you haven't heard anyone say that? Because there were no cameras along that route pointing at the street. Even the independent investigators found the same thing,

Which brings us back to the meta question that you won't address: why didn't all this occur to you when you were first presented with the conspiracy theory?
 
Hopefully this might help ya out. It's an article about Paris beginning to install its public camera grid. It's dated 2012.

www.france24.com

Debate swirls as Paris embraces video surveillance

A debate over surveillance cameras is raging in Paris, where police are in the process of establishing a widespread system of "video protection". Is it a necessary security measure or a needless infringement…
www.france24.com www.france24.com
 
I just can't concede this point. The government had satellites that could watch a woman's breasts from outer space....in 1970.

I just can't fathom ever-present surveillance NOT being in France in 1997.

Especially if it was a famous woman who was the enemy of the military industrial complex...no, she was under constant surveillance by both the government and the paparazzi.
 
BartholomewWest said:
I just can't concede this point. The government had satellites that could watch a woman's breasts from outer space....in 1970.

I just can't fathom ever-present surveillance NOT being in France in 1997.

Especially if it was a famous woman who was the enemy of the military industrial complex...no, she was under constant surveillance by both the government and the paparazzi.
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:dl:
 
BartholomewWest said:
I just can't concede this point. The government had satellites that could watch a woman's breasts from outer space....in 1970.

I just can't fathom ever-present surveillance NOT being in France in 1997.

Especially if it was a famous woman who was the enemy of the military industrial complex...no, she was under constant surveillance by both the government and the paparazzi.
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It doesn't matter what you can fathom, bro. We were all adults and were there and lived it. You can't picture a town that didn't have widespread surveillance. We can. We were there.

When exactly do you think public cameras came in? The 1970s? 1940s perhaps?

Eta: I mean Jesus Christ dude, I just linked you to a 2012 article when Paris was just starting to do this.
 
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BartholomewWest said:
But how can that be? Just look at this.


See how Orwellian Paris was? And this was just a hotel.
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Just a hotel. Just your average, run-of-the-mill Paris Ritz. The sort of hotel where I remember in the '90s ordering a scotch and being charged the price of two bottles of single malt. Prices to keep the riffraff away. (Okay that was the George V rather than the Ritz but same deal.)

So they, in their very posh hotel, had their own internal CCTV system. And from this you assume the streets of the city should also have had some kind of municipal CCTV system. No. That was not a thing in the 1990s.

Did you miss the post explaining that what you had claimed were a dozen mysteriously malfunctioning traffic cameras were nothing of the sort. They were a similar number of private cameras at various properties along the route, but which were fixed to cover those properties and not to show the road out front. You saw that post, didn't you?
 
Excuse me but we had municipal cameras in the 90s. I was alive. I remember it.

Maybe they were hidden. Maybe you didn't notice them. But they were there.

Even before 9/11, Big Brother was everywhere.
 
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