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Merged Strict biological definitions of male/female

So males cannot feel male? Gays cannot feel gay? Trans cannot feel different?
People can FEEL however the ◊◊◊◊ they want to feel. But their FEELINGS don't get to supplant reality for everyone else, and nobody else should be OBLIGATED to pretend that their feelings mean anything to anyone else.
 
"If you can't exactly and specifically address every single possible variation, known or unknown, then you're not allowed to draw any conclusions or recognize reality, you have to pretend like nothing is known at all!!!"
Putting a strawman between quotation marks takes an extra helping of chutzpah.

A more accurate rendition of my position would be something like "If you are going to affirm that every individual is either male or female, then you have to be able to deal with the hard cases."
 
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"If you can't exactly and specifically address every single possible variation, known or unknown, then you're not allowed to draw any conclusions or recognize reality, you have to pretend like nothing is known at all!!!111"

:rolleyes:
Now, now, don't have a "hissy-fit" ... 😉🙂

You're the one -- among many others of course -- who is insisting that there should be laws that discriminate and give rights on the basis of membership in some rather loosey-goosey "reproductive phenotype" category. One that is not at all shared by many ostensibly on your side -- like Heather Heying.

You simply can't try sweeping those edge cases under the carpet. You have to deal with them, either by redefining the category to include them -- and dealing with the contradictions like CAIS -- or you have to accept that the biological sex categories are not particularly useful for the social engineering purposes -- and agenda -- you have in mind.
 
Putting a strawman between quotation marks takes an extra helping of chutzpah.

A more accurate rendition of my position would be something like "If you are going to affirm that every individual is either male or female, then you have to be able to deal with the hard cases."
Fine. I'll counter with: If you are going to assert that some people are neither male nor female, or are some mystical blend of male and female, then you better come armed with something more than wishes and what ifs.
 
Fine. I'll counter with: If you are going to assert that some people are neither male nor female, or are some mystical blend of male and female, then you better come armed with something more than wishes and what ifs.
I don't think he's "asserting that some people are neither male nor female". Methinks it's more a case of "just asking questions" ...

He has said:
I'm trying to think of a good way to prove the oft-repeated claim that every human (or mammal, or anisogamous animal) has a reproductive phenotype.

And he has asserted that:
A "third sex" would be a new reproductive category (i.e. three gametes instead of just two) so obviously we're not talking about that unless we're doing SFF.

So unless he's prepared to accept that --as per Jerry Coyne, who I've braced on the topic in a Facebook comment -- the intersex are neither male nor female -- a "position" of mine that he's refusing to "address any further" (still with his knickers in a twist ...) -- then I doubt he will ever find that "good way".

He and you and too many others are trying to square the circle, all because you're desperately committed to the quite unscientific "idea", the "agenda", that everyone has to have a sex.
 
Seriously?? You don't get that all these anti-trans activities are based solely on peoples' feelings towards them?
LoL. Rolling on the floor, howling with laughter. 🙄

You might just as well argue that the Jew's objections to the Holocaust was just a matter of their (entirely unmerited) anti-German "feelings" ...

Many transactivists are claiming to have changed sex. And thereby claim access to rights and facilities, more or less mandated by law, that are designated for the sole use of those of the female "reproductive phenotype" -- regardless of how one might define and circumscribe the category.

And likewise claim that it is possible to actually change sex which is a flat-out lie, and which contributes to sterilization and castration of dysphoric and autistic children, turning them sexless eunuchs.

You might actually try reading that EO on "Protecting Children From Chemical And Surgical Mutilation":


Or maybe, on you assuming that that is what is happening, you don't "feel" that that is important? 🙄
 
Seriously?? You don't get that all these anti-trans activities are based solely on peoples' feelings towards them?
The vast majority of them are based on 1) the acknowledgement that allowing males to supersede female boundaries based solely on their feelings represents a risk and a serious disadvantage to females being able to participate equally in society and 2) the recognition that minors cannot reasonably give informed consent to medical interventions as a treatment for a mental health issue, when the effects of those interventions have no scientific support for efficacy, produce material bodily harm to those children, and have long-term negative side effects.

Some few are just plain mean though.
 
The vast majority of them are based on 1) the acknowledgement that allowing males to supersede female boundaries based solely on their feelings represents a risk and a serious disadvantage to females being able to participate equally in society and 2) the recognition that minors cannot reasonably give informed consent to medical interventions as a treatment for a mental health issue, when the effects of those interventions have no scientific support for efficacy, produce material bodily harm to those children, and have long-term negative side effects.

Some few are just plain mean though.
These proposed laws are based on peoples' feelings towards others. They feel that all their women are somehow going to be disadvantaged and have their "boundaries impinged" because a tiny handful of men have personal gender questions and are trying to resolve them. They feel that minors will be forced by the state to have unspecified medical procedures without diagnosis or consent, even though that is an over-hyped and utterly ridiculous fantasy. They feel they have the right to intervene in these highly personal issues because it doesn't feel right to them. They feel that they need to create blanket laws for everybody.

How about butting the hell out. Let families and children and qualified doctors resolve childrens' mental health issues. Let the sports bodies resolve how to deal with trans in their sports. Many of them already are.
 
These proposed laws are based on peoples' feelings towards others. They feel that all their women are somehow going to be disadvantaged and have their "boundaries impinged" because a tiny handful of men have personal gender questions and are trying to resolve them. They feel that minors will be forced by the state to have unspecified medical procedures without diagnosis or consent, even though that is an over-hyped and utterly ridiculous fantasy. They feel they have the right to intervene in these highly personal issues because it doesn't feel right to them. They feel that they need to create blanket laws for everybody.
It's not the State that's forcing minors to have "unspecified medical procedures" -- AKA, the sterilization and castration of autistic and dysphoric children turning them into sexless eunuchs.

It's the State -- some 20 Republican ones, and now the Federal Government -- which is stepping in to ban what is no better than junk science and quack medicine.

How about butting the hell out. Let families and children and qualified doctors resolve children's' mental health issues. Let the sports bodies resolve how to deal with trans in their sports. Many of them already are.
"qualified doctors". What a flaming joke.

Despite its grand title, WPATH [World Professional Association for Transgender Health] is neither solely a professional body – a significant proportion of its membership are activists – nor does it represent the “world” view on how to care for this group of people. There is no global agreement on best practice. The leaked messages (and the odd recording) – dubbed the WPATH files – are disturbing. In one video, doctors acknowledge that patients are sometimes too young to fully understand the consequences of puberty blockers and hormones for their fertility. “It’s always a good theory that you talk about fertility preservation with a 14-year-old, but I know I’m talking to a blank wall,” one Canadian endocrinologist says. ....


WPATH’s president, Dr. Marci Bowers, comments on the impact of early blocking of puberty on sexual function in adulthood. “To date,” she writes, “I’m unaware of an individual claiming ability to orgasm when they were blocked at Tanner 2.” Tanner stage 2 is the beginning of puberty. It can be as young as nine in girls.
 
These proposed laws are based on peoples' feelings towards others. They feel that all their women are somehow going to be disadvantaged and have their "boundaries impinged" because a tiny handful of men have personal gender questions and are trying to resolve them. They feel that minors will be forced by the state to have unspecified medical procedures without diagnosis or consent, even though that is an over-hyped and utterly ridiculous fantasy. They feel they have the right to intervene in these highly personal issues because it doesn't feel right to them. They feel that they need to create blanket laws for everybody.
Are females not allowed to have opinions of our own, but must be subjected to the whims of the males who own us?
How about butting the hell out. Let families and children and qualified doctors resolve childrens' mental health issues. Let the sports bodies resolve how to deal with trans in their sports. Many of them already are.
Is it your position that females in prison have no protection against cruel and unusual punishment, and that the mental health issues of males with gendery-feels trumps any expectation to safety and consent for those females? Is it your position that males should be granted the privilege of moving to the female wing on the basis of their unverifiable, subjective claim to "feel like a woman"?

Are you at all aware that puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgical intervention in mniors does NOT resolve their mental health issues, and in fact has not shown to be effective in treating or alleviating gender dysphoria over the long term?

In all seriousness... you seem to have boundless compassion for males with gender-related mental health conditions... but you seem to have no compassion at all for females, nor for children. Why is that? Why do you place the mental well being of some males above the wellbeing and safety of half the human population?
 
Fine. I'll counter with: If you are going to assert that some people are neither male nor female, or are some mystical blend of male and female, then you better come armed with something more than wishes and what ifs.
Do you see any difference between "I am skeptical of your claim" and "I assert your claim is false" either in practice or in theory?
 
"If you can't exactly and specifically address every single possible variation, known or unknown, then you're not allowed to draw any conclusions or recognize reality, you have to pretend like nothing is known at all!!!111"

:rolleyes:
Imagine applying d4m10n's logic to other branches of science... such as planetary sciences..

We have eight planets in our solar system all of which differ from each other and numerous ways. We know that other star systems have planets too, but we don't know much about the ones we have discovered, and there are many more that remain undiscovered. Therefore we have to treat all planets as being exactly the same.

...and at least planet types are genuinely on a spectrum!!
 
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Imagine applying d4m10n's logic to other branches of science... such as planetary sciences..

We have eight planets in our solar system all of which differ from each other and numerous ways. We know that other star systems have planets too, but we don't know much about the ones we have discovered, and there are many more that remain undiscovered. Therefore we have to treat all planets as being exactly the same.

...and at least planet types are genuinely on a spectrum!!
"I'll take false analogies for $100 please Alex" ... 🙄

And you call yourself an engineer?

A planet is a large, rounded astronomical body that is generally required to be in orbit around a star, stellar remnant, or brown dwarf, and is not one itself.

They generally ARE "exactly the same", at least to the extent of being "in orbit around a star". After that they can have a great many traits -- size, orbits, intersections, etc. -- that are different.
 
Are females not allowed to have opinions of our own, but must be subjected to the whims of the males who own us?
That's what the legislation is all about. Come on! Surely you knew this?!
Is it your position that females in prison have no protection against cruel and unusual punishment, and that the mental health issues of males with gendery-feels trumps any expectation to safety and consent for those females? Is it your position that males should be granted the privilege of moving to the female wing on the basis of their unverifiable, subjective claim to "feel like a woman"?
When you have stopped putting words in my mouth, I'll respond to that.
Are you at all aware that puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones, and surgical intervention in minors does NOT resolve their mental health issues, and in fact has not shown to be effective in treating or alleviating gender dysphoria over the long term?
If you say so. Doctors seem to think it helps in some cases. But does any of this need legislation? Surely it is up to the doctors, parents and children to resolve.
In all seriousness... you seem to have boundless compassion for males with gender-related mental health conditions... but you seem to have no compassion at all for females, nor for children. Why is that? Why do you place the mental well being of some males above the wellbeing and safety of half the human population?
Oh I dunno. Perhaps it's because I like to beat up my wife and daughter, and force them to be subservient to whatever medical controls I deem necessary to make law and force on them. Or maybe I don't. And I prefer that whatever their medical and mental issues, we work together as a supportive family with professional doctors to resolve them so they can be the best people they can be.
 

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