Cont: Scorpion's Spiritualism, Part Deux

Scorpion, download books in english!​

Thanks
No. Again, head down to the railroad tracks, stand in the middle, and wait for the next train to see how wrong you are about the train being an illusion. Yes, the train and you are both atomic particles, but you left out the three types of atomic bonding that will dictate the results of your contact with the speeding train. And yes, physics is the other major factor, but your body will be disarticulated, and "converted back into energy" long before the atoms of the train.

Philosophy class is fun, but don't skip the science class.
Atoms are largely empty space. It is the nuclear forces which bind them that cause the illusion they are solid things. If the nuclear forces were weaker a train might pass through us without touching us, or we could walk through walls.
 
Many past scientific theories have been proved wrong. In any case I do not recall science proving there is no spirit world or a God.
 
Many past scientific theories have been proved wrong.
Yes, by the accumulation of evidence that showed them to be wrong, and not until then.

In any case I do not recall science proving there is no spirit world or a God.
You know better than to expect to reverse the burden of proof without being laughed at. If you claim God and spirits exist, you must prove it.

In science, we often hypothesize the existence of something because we observe something that isn't presently explained by what we already know. But we don't stop at the hypothesis and just take it to be true. We find a way to test the hypothesis to see whether the thing we suspect might exist actually does. If that test fails, we throw out the hypothesis and try something else.

As noted, this is what we did with the neutrino. We didn't just up and decide today that we wanted a new particle because it would be neat. The observation of beta decay wasn't fully explained by the existing model. The neutrino hypothesis followed from what would need to be true in order to extend the model to account for it. Then we tested for the actual existence of a particle that fit the criteria, and found evidence that indeed such a particle existed—not because we wanted it to, but because it was actually there.

We're in the middle of a similar process with dark matter and energy. We hypothesize that such things might exist because they would explain certain observations that aren't predicted by our current model. That doesn't mean we just up and declare that dark matter exists. We need to figure out how to test whether it does. And if we come up with a test, and it fails, then we have to throw out the dark matter hypothesis and come up with a different explanation. This takes time.

In contrast, you're not trying to explain anything with gods our spirits that our current models don't already cover. We already know how certain psychological and phenomenological factors generate belief in the supernatural without there actually needing to be a supernatural element. Your elaborate system of gods, demigods, angels, spirits, and karma exist solely to serve themselves—not to explain anything that needs explaining.

Beyond that, you simply have no evidence that any of what you propose actually exists, and little interest in providing any. Instead you whine about the closed-mindedness of your critics, the oppression of secular science, and your perception that you can't prevail in an intellectual debate only because your critics are more sophistical and devious than you.

You're trying to submit your beliefs for scientific inquiry. The possibility that such an inquiry might not tell you what you want to hear is exactly how science is supposed to work. That's why science consistently succeeds in the long term while religion stands still and cries in its tea.
 
We know that's what you think Scorpion, but that's because you are according to yourself, a sufferer of a mental illness that is categorised by delusions, and the steadfast belief that those delusions are true.
 
Last edited:
Something worth considering: do you know who proved scientific theories wrong? Scientists! And in every single case ever it's lead to a more actuate scientific theory not God/gods/spirits/pixies did it.
 
We know that's what you think Scorpion, but that's because you are according to yourself, a sufferer of a mental illness that is categorised by delusions, and the steadfast belief that those delusions are true.
I am too long in the tooth to take any notice of people who think I am crazy including every psychiatrist I have ever seen who, like you thought my beliefs were delusions. I know what I have experienced, and I am certain my conclusions are correct.
 
I have been through the same process as you and realized that I am not as intellectual or as well educated as many of the people here. However my conclusion was they have all outsmarted themselves, and they do not know the real truths. So do not let their skepticism get you down.
We're so smart we end up stupid. Nice.

If something is real, then there will be evidence of it. Period. If it is real, it leaves traces that we can, in principle, discover and evaluate. Spirits and psychic phenomena have had lots of opportunities for such evidence to be discovered, but every time it has come up short. Every. Time.

Occam's Razor says that the reason there is no evidence for spirits is that they don't exist, not that they exist but for some unknown reason do not leave evidence. Do not multiply entities unnecessarily. Spirits explain nothing. They achieve nothing. The world without spirits is identical in all practical ways to the world with spirits that don't leave evidence.
 
I am too long in the tooth to take any notice of people who think I am crazy including every psychiatrist I have ever seen who, like you thought my beliefs were delusions. I know what I have experienced, and I am certain my conclusions are correct.
Mark did not say that you are "crazy". He said that you have a mental illness. Stop participating in the stigmatisation of your illness.
 
Something worth considering: do you know who proved scientific theories wrong? Scientists! And in every single case ever it's lead to a more actuate scientific theory not God/gods/spirits/pixies did it.
I see you are still quoting my signature where I said I am the thinker not my brain. I have fought that war against chemical chaos in my brain and won it. Chemicals do not have the last word in my brain I do. As far as I am concerned that is because thought is caused by the immortal spirit that is only using the brain.
 
I am too long in the tooth to take any notice of people who think I am crazy including every psychiatrist I have ever seen who, like you thought my beliefs were delusions.
Nevertheless the mental illness you tell us you suffer or suffered from remains the best explanation for the observations you report.

I know what I have experienced, and I am certain my conclusions are correct.
But that certainty is not based on anything that works for anyone else. Therefore you can't claim it as some universal truth of which only you are miraculously aware. No one is challenging your experiences. But your explanations and interpretations of them are indeed testable and have come up short.
 
I am too long in the tooth to take any notice of people who think I am crazy including every psychiatrist I have ever seen who, like you thought my beliefs were delusions. I know what I have experienced, and I am certain my conclusions are correct.
I used to say, "I know what I saw." I said it a lot. Now that I'm older and better educated, and have done the serious ghost-hunting stuff I no longer "know what I saw". The things I've seen and experienced keep me interested in the subject, but now I accept real-world answers instead of hiding behind new age dogma.
 
The universe is an incredibly finely tuned system and the likely hood of all the forces and parameter's that have to be correct in order for it to exist are very highly against it. This has led scientists to devise the theory of multiverses, that is many failed universes may exist in order for there to be one that works. So why can I not propose the theory that there is only this universe, and God set it into motion as a perfect system to produce and evolve intelligent life. So there is a guiding force behind it all that we are not supposed to be able to penetrate by scientific methods. Because the purpose of it all is that we are here to learn by experience, and have free will to act as we choose without the restraint of an obvious God.
Who is to say the theory of reincarnation and karma is not valid?
 
The universe is an incredibly finely tuned system and the likely hood of all the forces and parameter's that have to be correct in order for it to exist are very highly against it.
Irrelevant. The universe exists and has the properties we observe. Therefore arguments about how unlikely it is are immediately moot.

So why can I not propose the theory that there is only this universe, and God set it into motion as a perfect system to produce and evolve intelligent life.
There is no evidence that multiple universes actually exist or existed. It's just a fanciful speculation. We don't need a God to explain what we see now and no evidence that there is one anyway. Therefore Occam's Razor trims it from consideration.

So there is a guiding force behind it all...
You've shown no evidence of any guiding force, and your attempts to do so amount to amateur fiction with lots of plot holes.

...that we are not supposed to be able to penetrate by scientific methods.
Special pleading. You don't like science, so you just write that plot point into your story.

Because the purpose of it all is that we are here to learn by experience, and have free will to act as we choose without the restraint of an obvious God.
If the experience isn't observably different from the one where there's no God, then there's no reason to suppose there is one. The universe observably doesn't need one. There's no evidence that there is one. Therefore no reason to believe in one except that you consider yourself superior because you do.

Who is to say the theory of reincarnation and karma is not valid?
Who's to say Lord of the Rings isn't a true story?

If you want to believe in reincarnation and karma, go ahead. If you want to convince other people that it's factually true, you have to provide evidence and cogent argument. You've failed for years to do both, and instead you just complain about how badly you're being treated. No one compels you present your arguments to skeptics while you know you don't have what it takes to convince them. You just want something to complain about to pretend you're being persecuted and therefore somehow validated.
 
The universe is an incredibly finely tuned system and the likely hood of all the forces and parameter's that have to be correct in order for it to exist are very highly against it. This has led scientists to devise the theory of multiverses, that is many failed universes may exist in order for there to be one that works. So why can I not propose the theory that there is only this universe, and God set it into motion as a perfect system to produce and evolve intelligent life. So there is a guiding force behind it all that we are not supposed to be able to penetrate by scientific methods. Because the purpose of it all is that we are here to learn by experience, and have free will to act as we choose without the restraint of an obvious God.
Because scientist propose multiverse theories for good and valid reasons, and back them up with higher mathematics and physics, unlike your idea which is too vague and wishy-washy to even call a "theory".
Who is to say the theory of reincarnation and karma is not valid?
I am. Based on the clear lack of evidence that should be there for all to see, should those ideas be true.
 
Like I say, I fought that war for possession of my thoughts against chemical imbalance of my brain, and I won it.
According to you. Schizophrenics are notoriously unable to self-diagnose. It's one of the hardest things about treating the illness. Whatever you feel, schizophrenia is a far better explanation for your reported observations than all the cosmic mumbo jumbo you periodically foist on us.
 
There is no evidence that multiple universes actually exist or existed. It's just a fanciful speculation.
Sorry, but multiverse cosmology is more than just "fanciful speculation". They are real theories, proposed to explain real scientific phenomena, and are backed up by real science.

Also, Scorpion's description of multiverse theories are almost misleading in their simplicity. There is a lot of complex physics behind them.
 

Back
Top Bottom