Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

[rdwight]

Who gets to decide what's half baked and what isn't?


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Well, pretty straightforward things like "ICE IS TARGETTING SCHOOLS" are still being spread even after it was pointed out by news sources that it was the secret service and not ICE. So objective reality gets to decide. I'm sure this will be more nuanced when individual cases of things happen, like an American Citizen being held pending paperwork or citizenship, or a Native American as pointed out above. Avoiding hyperbole from individual cases would be best practice.

Who said they are going to wait to see if the courts approve. Trump's whole schtick is mass action from day one with a record number of executive orders.

So he will defy the courts to impose it, something that will only affect new births after Feb? Even if I thought it likely for him to defy the courts, this is definitely not one I see it being useful or likely on. But sure, it could happen. I just don't see it as related to the discussion of current ICE actions.

 

[johnny karate]

You can actually read my original message, it's right here on the page. Concern can be warranted. It can also scare people into doing dangerous or ill advised things when the actual threat is small or nonexistent. Ballooning the realities can have consequences so not spreading every half baked social media post you see to dunk on Trump can actually hurt people. Is that worth it to you? It seems so but maybe you don't consider those side effects to matter.

As for the EO, I don't consider it related because I don't see any way it would ever get past the courts and enforced.

I'm Very Concerned about what people are saying on social media and internet forums but I can't shrug my shoulders hard enough at the illegal actions of an administration that considers the Constitution optional.

 

[johnny karate]

Well, pretty straightforward things like "ICE IS TARGETTING SCHOOLS" are still being spread even after it was pointed out by news sources that it was the secret service and not ICE. So objective reality gets to decide. I'm sure this will be more nuanced when individual cases of things happen, like an American Citizen being held pending paperwork or citizenship, or a Native American as pointed out above. Avoiding hyperbole from individual cases would be best practice.


So he will defy the courts to impose it, something that will only affect new births after Feb? Even if I thought it likely for him to defy the courts, this is definitely not one I see it being useful or likely on. But sure, it could happen. I just don't see it as related to the discussion of current ICE actions.

I am Very Concerned about "objective reality" except when the Trump administration ignores it to perform illegal and unconstitutional acts. I am the voice of reason.

 

[rdwight]

I'm Very Concerned about what people are saying on social media and internet forums but I can't shrug my shoulders hard enough at the illegal actions of an administration that considers the Constitution optional.

Yes, I'm sure you were just as concerned with every presidential overreach via EO. Also sure you called them all 'illegal actions'. These are things I definitely believe. You are consistent with morality and constitutionality. This way of conversating is very smart and effective.

 

[AmyStrange]

Well, pretty straightforward things like "ICE IS TARGETTING SCHOOLS" are still being spread even after it was pointed out by news sources that it was the secret service and not ICE. So objective reality gets to decide. I'm sure this will be more nuanced when individual cases of things happen, like an American Citizen being held pending paperwork or citizenship, or a Native American as pointed out above. Avoiding hyperbole from individual cases would be best practice.


So he will defy the courts to impose it, something that will only affect new births after Feb? Even if I thought it likely for him to defy the courts, this is definitely not one I see it being useful or likely on. But sure, it could happen. I just don't see it as related to the discussion of current ICE actions.

So, in other words, you get to decide. Got it.

You do know that this is a skeptics site, right? We do discuss CTs and things of that sort here, and we actually did discuss the above news item and found it lacking. It's the kind of stuff we do.

Trust me, we don't let real "half baked" news items get too far here.

Of course, if you're against free speech...


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[johnny karate]

Yes, I'm sure you were just as concerned with every presidential overreach via EO. Also sure you called them all 'illegal actions'. These are things I definitely believe. You are consistent with morality and constitutionality. This way of conversating is very smart and effective.

You're calling a blatantly unconstitutional executive order "presidential overreach". Maybe the most embarrassing attempt at whataboutism I've seen on this forum, and that's really saying something.

This is what it looks like when the cracks in the reasonable centrist facade reveal the Trump supporter underneath.

 

[rdwight]

So, in other words, you get to decide. Got it.

You do know that this is a skeptics site, right? We do discuss CTs and things of that sort, and we actually did discuss the above news item and found it lacking. It's the kind of stuff we do here.

Trust me, we don't let real "half baked" news items get too far here.

Of course, if you're against free speech...


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Ok. Show me some indication the ICE in schools story was legitimate. Where is your evidence? You don't get to say that I decide just because i side with the facts. If the facts change, things change. Until then, yea, i'll go with the preponderance of evidence. And the idea this place is above spreading unsubstantiated news does not match my experience. It gets called out, sure. But that doesnt seem to stop it from being repeated.

You're calling a blatantly unconstitutional executive order "presidential overreach". Maybe the most embarrassing attempt at whataboutism I've seen on this forum, and that's really saying something.

This is what it looks like when the cracks in the reasonable centrist facade reveal the Trump supporter underneath.

Bidens student loan forgiveness was found unconstitutional. As was his debt relief for minority farmers. Not to mention many of trumps and obamas eos. That and expanding things beyond the authority of the agencies involved with things like vaccine mandate. This is nothing new. I hate that congress has allowed their powers to be eroded. And that executive branch has continued to push their limits with easily overturned EO's that are removed every 4 years. You hate the specifics and I hate the very use of them on things like this.

 

[AmyStrange]

Ok. Show me some indication the ICE in schools story was legitimate. Where is your evidence? You don't get to say that I decide just because i side with the facts. If the facts change, things change. Until then, yea, i'll go with the preponderance of evidence. And the idea this place is above spreading unsubstantiated news does not match my experience. It gets called out, sure. But that doesnt seem to stop it from being repeated.

I don't have to because this thread was on top of it almost immediately. It's only five pages long. It's towards the beginning and shouldn't be too hard to find.

If you don't like that, fine, then report it, and let the mods decide.

They're the ones who get to decide.

Not you, me, or anyone else.


ETA: I posted the story at 1:25 pm on Friday (1-24), and dubalb started questioning the reality of it at about 2:17 pm, same day.

Post in thread 'Trump's promised ICE raids have begun'

Jan 24, 2025

Oh oh, I'm beginning to get a really, really bad feeling about all this...


ICE agents attempted entry into Chicago elementary school but were not allowed inside, Chicago Public Schools officials say
Story by Dalia Faheid, CNN

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents attempted entry into a Chicago elementary school Friday morning, but were not allowed inside or permitted to speak to anyone inside, Chicago Public Schools officials said.

Around 11:15 a.m., ICE agents attempted to enter Hamline Elementary School.

“School staff followed CPS established...

• AmyStrange

• 

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[rdwight]

I don't have to because this thread was on top of it almost immediately. It's only five pages long. It's towards the beginning and shouldn't be too hard to find.

If you don't like that, fine, then report it, and let the mods decide.

They're the ones who get to decide.

Not you, me, or anyone else.


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Maybe we are misunderstanding each other. I dont mean in specifics to this forum. I am more talking generalities of posting habits of people on these kinds of topics. My wife was literally asking about this an hour ago because it was being spread on local moms groups in our area. When rumors leave containment they continue to spread widely. How many kids will miss school because parents believe the rumor, and for how long?

 

[AmyStrange]

Maybe we are misunderstanding each other. I dont mean in specifics to this forum. I am more talking generalities of posting habits of people on these kinds of topics. My wife was literally asking about this an hour ago because it was being spread on local moms groups in our area. When rumors leave containment they continue to spread widely. How many kids will miss school because parents believe the rumor, and for how long?

My apologies, but if you think this place is crazy, check out the msn and fox forums. Their AI won't even let you use the word "you" or even "AI", but they let people say the most outrageous lies, and they sometimes get the same amount of up and down votes.

Talk about a divided US. You can see it live and in person at either place, but more so at MSN. The gang at fox is just that, a gang, and they will literally pile up on you if you write one unkind word about trump...

...and then there's X.


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[johnny karate]

Ok. Show me some indication the ICE in schools story was legitimate. Where is your evidence? You don't get to say that I decide just because i side with the facts. If the facts change, things change. Until then, yea, i'll go with the preponderance of evidence. And the idea this place is above spreading unsubstantiated news does not match my experience. It gets called out, sure. But that doesnt seem to stop it from being repeated.


Bidens student loan forgiveness was found unconstitutional. As was his debt relief for minority farmers. Not to mention many of trumps and obamas eos. That and expanding things beyond the authority of the agencies involved with things like vaccine mandate. This is nothing new. I hate that congress has allowed their powers to be eroded. And that executive branch has continued to push their limits with easily overturned EO's that are removed every 4 years. You hate the specifics and I hate the very use of them on things like this.

“Found unconstitutional” and “blatantly unconstitutional” are two different things. The first can be argued in good faith one way or the other, the second cannot.

The Trump executive order in question directly contradicts the plain language of the 14th amendment. Whatabouting that remains Trump apologist inanity.

 

[johnny karate]

Maybe we are misunderstanding each other. I dont mean in specifics to this forum. I am more talking generalities of posting habits of people on these kinds of topics. My wife was literally asking about this an hour ago because it was being spread on local moms groups in our area. When rumors leave containment they continue to spread widely. How many kids will miss school because parents believe the rumor, and for how long?

Concern trolling to this degree usually needs to be based on stakes that aren’t so laughably low to have any chance of being taken seriously.

 

[Tero]

Why are you buying coffee from a country with conditions so poor that people would rather come to America illegally, than stay home and pick your coffee beans for you?

Not me. Starbucks and pals. Colombia is 15%, Brazil 63%. Only a matter of time till Trump gets mad at Brazil.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Not me. Starbucks and pals. Colombia is 15%, Brazil 63%. Only a matter of time till Trump gets mad at Brazil.

Trump gets mad at EVERYBODY who defies his petty whims.

 

[AmyStrange]

IMO, this article is loaded with more shock and awe than real information, but please, enjoy:

Trump administration launches immigration enforcement blitz in Chicago
Story by Priscilla Alvarez and Rosa Flores, CNN

The Trump administration launched an immigration enforcement blitz in Chicago on Sunday that includes several federal agencies that have been granted additional authorities to arrest undocumented immigrants in the US, according to multiple sources.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents are expected to be joined by officials from multiple Department of Justice agencies as they target public safety and national security threats. It’s a multiday operation that will spread across the country...

(SNIP)

ICE field offices have been told to meet a quota of 75 arrests per day as part of this effort to increase apprehensions of migrants in the US, according to two sources. In the last fiscal year, ICE’s Enforcement and Removal Operations conducted 113,431 administrative arrests, according to an agency report. That would be about 310 arrests a day across all field offices.

(SNIP)


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[Safe-Keeper]

Arrest quotas? Surely nothing can go wrong with that .

 

[Norman Alexander]

So the arrest rate last year...under Biden...was 310 per day. And now with the "shock and awe" of the Trump2 administration, this has risen to a staggering 75 per day.

Success, Trump style!

 

[AmyStrange]

So the arrest rate last year...under Biden...was 310 per day. And now with the "shock and awe" of the Trump2 administration, this has risen to a staggering 75 per day.

Success, Trump style!

Actually, if you believe Homan (hahahahaha), it's 750 a day.


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[Norman Alexander]

Actually, if you believe Homan (hahahahaha), it's 750 a day.

He's got to be one of those AI-generated comedy characters...hasn't he?

 

[rdwight]

So the arrest rate last year...under Biden...was 310 per day. And now with the "shock and awe" of the Trump2 administration, this has risen to a staggering 75 per day.

Success, Trump style!

Thats the total for all offices. This would be per office, which there are 25 of from a quick search. So 1,875 a day, roughly 6x more than current at the goal rate, 684k per year. For perspective ICE had 158k arrests in 2018 which was the highest of trumps first term.