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RFK Jr, vaccines, and autism

The "get this" phrasing wasn't because I thought you didn't know it. Of course everyone knows this. Of course this was common knowledge. It wasn't "wide eyed."

It was more like.... here's how insane this all sounds when you strip the events down to the bare facts, step back and look at them objectively. Imagine explaining this to someone reasonable and NOT thinking it was crazy.

I wasn't assuming you were "hearing this for the first time." Of course not. I know it's not new.
 
Citation, please.

Please note: just saying a thing is 'common sense' is not evidence.


ETA: Pixel42 addresses the whole 'common sense' argument better than I.
(Multi-quote isn't working for me for some reason)
I was in the military for four years (USN), and didn't have "constant surveillance" put on me after leaving, and was never pulled over by airport security before getting on a plane- and this is even considering that I had a hard time getting in the Navy in the first place because I had a maternal aunt who was an East German communist at the time, so I would seem to have been an ideal object of government suspicion. This seems like one of those things that five seconds of "common sense" would tell you is complete non-sense. How many people are there who leave the service, and how many agents would it take for this "constant surveillance" to cover them for life?
 
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Trust me, they were tracking you. You just didn't see it.

I've heard other stories like this. I had a classmate who lived in New York and he, IIRC, got stopped at the Canadian border because (I am not making this up) his father was arrested for selling heroin in the 1970s and they assumed he was his father. Though his father was dead at that point. He was utterly astonished.

I have no reason to assume this classmate was lying to me.
 
The "get this" phrasing wasn't because I thought you didn't know it. Of course everyone knows this. Of course this was common knowledge. It wasn't "wide eyed."

It was more like.... here's how insane this all sounds when you strip the events down to the bare facts, step back and look at them objectively. Imagine explaining this to someone reasonable and NOT thinking it was crazy.

I wasn't assuming you were "hearing this for the first time." Of course not. I know it's not new.
Uh huh. Imagine "explaining" this to someone who actually knows "the bare facts" of this case, and being told by them that one of your bare facts is laughably wrong- oh wait, you don't have to imagine, do you? Since that's what totally just happened. How would you react? Would you acknowledge the mistake, or would you pretend the framing of the correction was the more important point? Well, we can see what you did, can't we?
 
That was what struck me too. The US has a larger than average proportion of military veterans. From memory it might even be something like one in six or one in seven men. I wonder what proportion of the population would have to be employed in keeping them under surveillance for life.
 
While I am on the subject, it's great to believe in the scientific method- but at a certain point, you have to apply common sense, too.

Take the Kennedy assassination, just as an example. Look at the facts.

The President was shot at a parade, surrounded by cops and hidden microphones. On camera, I may add. By a guy who was a known traitor (a soldier who had defected to the Soviet Union and had even married a Russian woman, IIRC.)

When you leave the military, you are under constant surveillance for the rest of your life, cause the feds fear you might "join a different government". Airport security pulls you over if you are merely taking a plane on vacation. How was a guy who HAD "joined a different government" allowed to go near the President with a rifle?

But that's not even the weird part. Get this. He gets arrested at the movies and ALSO gets shot on camera, surrounded by cops and reporters. On live TV.

And then the guy who shot him dies in jail. Just 4 months later.

Even when you tell this story to 13-year-olds, they say "What the actual hell!?"

Even children don't believe it!
First, we have an entire thread dedicated to the JFK Assassination BS. Your inability to focus on a subject undermines your credibility.

Second: it was a motorcade, not parade, and he was not surrounded by cops. Kennedy - by request - had no Secret Service Agents on the rear of his limo, they were one car back. There were no hidden microphones (that's BS), there is a highly disputed dictaphone recording made from the open mike on one motorcycle officer's radio, and it's a crap recording. Oswald was a US Marine, not a soldier.

No, when you leave the military you are NOT UNDER SURVELLIANCE FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. This is a bald faced lie. A pathetic lie at that. We don't have the money or resources to track every veteran, just ask the VA. Thousands of vets pass through airports daily without extra scrutiny from security.

How was a guy who HAD "joined a different government" allowed to go near the President with a rifle?
Couple of reasons. First, the FBI didn't know Oswald had guns. Second, the FBI didn't inform the Secret Service about Oswald working at the TSB, and had they done so they would have sat on him while JFK was in Dallas. Finally, America is not a surveillance state. We don't have a GRU...yet..

But that's not even the weird part. Get this. He gets arrested at the movies and ALSO gets shot on camera, surrounded by cops and reporters. On live TV.

What's weird about that? The city was on edge, a killer was on the loose. Oswald had just shot a Dallas police officer, and was seen acting strange on the street before slipping into a movie theater - without paying - to hide. He tried to shoot a second police officer during his arrest. The main reason Oswald was shot was the Dallas Police Chief wanted "transparency" to the public instead of following normal procedures.

And then the guy who shot him dies in jail. Just 4 months later.

Even when you tell this story to 13-year-olds, they say "What the actual hell!?"

The 13 year-olds are probably referring to how bad you are at Googling basic facts. Jack Ruby, the guy who shot Oswald in 1963, died of cancer in 1967.

To try to get this thread back on topic, in 1962 JFK signed the Vaccination Act into law:


And you can see the polio rates drop after 1963:

 
Things that you appear to think are "common knowledge" frequently seem to be not.

They are "common knowledge". Don't let your education blind you to reality.

By the way, I found posts from years ago when people were questioning the obvious fact that Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds were both on steroids.

They were offering the same excuses back then. "That's just a rumor." "You don't have evidence." "Just because it looks suspicious doesn't mean anything." "He's been tested a million times." "I am laughing at this."

Well, guess who's laughing now.

Of course this is a silly celebrity example. I don't give a damn if they used steroids or not.

It's just funny to see people ignore common sense and get proven wrong.
 
That was what struck me too. The US has a larger than average proportion of military veterans. From memory it might even be something like one in six or one in seven men. I wonder what proportion of the population would have to be employed in keeping them under surveillance for life.

That was what struck me too. The US has a larger than average proportion of military veterans. From memory it might even be something like one in six or one in seven men. I wonder what proportion of the population would have to be employed in keeping them under surveillance for life.
(WTF is going on with the damn quote function here? No idea why Jack's post is also being attributed to PB as a multi-quote here...maybe it's the CIA/Mafia/whoever.)

Anyway, I looked it up, and according to the Pew Research Center, there are (as of Nov 2023) over 18 million living veterans in the US. With that many people to track for life, I couldn't avoid seeing them- they'd be all over the damn place. Oh, wait...we're talking to a CTist who apparently thinks of the conspirators (whoever they are) as a sort of collective deity- they just automatically have, by definition, whatever properties or capabilities they must have to be a successful conspiracy. Otherwise, the deist/CTist would have no god to worship or conspiracy to fear (and, not incidentally, no reason to preen themselves over their membership in the exclusive club who know the Real Truth).
 
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They are "common knowledge". Don't let your education blind you to reality.

By the way, I found posts from years ago when people were questioning the obvious fact that Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds were both on steroids.

They were offering the same excuses back then. "That's just a rumor." "You don't have evidence." "Just because it looks suspicious doesn't mean anything." "He's been tested a million times." "I am laughing at this."

Well, guess who's laughing now.
Of course this is a silly celebrity example. I don't give a damn if they used steroids or not.

It's just funny to see people ignore common sense and get proven wrong.
There's an answer to that that I'm afraid you wouldn't like.
 
Ok, with that little gem, I'm beginning to get to a "not sure if serious" phase with this conversation.

Of course I am serious.

As for surveillance of veterans....you are under surveillance even BEFORE signing up!

I used to know a guy who was a veteran. They did extensive background checks on him before he was even allowed in!

They wanted to see if he could be blackmailed, obviously.
 
Of course I am serious.
As for surveillance of veterans....you are under surveillance even BEFORE signing up!

I used to know a guy who was a veteran. They did extensive background checks on him before he was even allowed in!

They wanted to see if he could be blackmailed, obviously.
Well, that's just part of your..."charm" is the word I'd like to use, but "entertainment value" might be closer to accurate.

As for the rest...yes, I mentioned that when I joined the Navy, they did a background check on me, as I imagine they do indeed do for anyone wanting to join (I don't know how "extensive"- that seems like one of those words you could use to mean nothing in particular, or something nefarious, depending on your bent). And, in my case, since I had the maternal aunt who was a member of the East German Communist Party, it meant that I was barred from certain MOS's that could involve access to classified material (Yeoman, for example), since having that aunt meant that I could have been blackmailed into revealing such material; so I ended up as a plain old Hospital Corpsman (Pharmacy Tech).

But none of this is evidence that I (or every other of the 18 million or so living vets) merit "constant surveillance." Can you really, really not see how ridiculous (NTM paranoid) that sounds?
 
I maintain that common sense is your friend in life. At least in this situation.

My common sense is telling me that this sequence of events ...
So the most famous guy in the world gets shot in broad daylight. Then the killer gets shot in broad daylight. Then the killer of the killer mysteriously dies in jail.

... is unremarkable in a country as violent and obsessed with guns as the US (and that there was nothing remotely mysterious about the third death) and that this statement ...
You'd be crazy to NOT think this was the Mafia.

... is manifestly ludicrous.

Now what?
 
But none of this is evidence that I (or every other of the 18 million or so living vets) merit "constant surveillance." Can you really, really not see how ridiculous (NTM paranoid) that sounds?

Let me flip that around. Do you really, really not see how ridiculous and naive it sounds when people deny the obvious?

Edward Snowden, a low-level government employee, came forward years ago and said "Guys, even I could have read President Obama's emails! And I was just a low-level member of Big Brother!"

You are fooling yourself if you think the NSA doesn't spy on ex-military. Not just the NSA, either!

Shoot, they were even spying on Mother Theresa and the Pope and Princess Diana, when they were alive. By their own admission.
 
My common sense is telling me that this sequence of events ...


... is unremarkable in a country as violent and obsessed with guns as the US (and that there was nothing remotely mysterious about the third death) and that this statement ...


... is manifestly ludicrous.

Now what?

You use words like "ludicrous" when, in reality, thinking it WASN'T "remarkable" or "mysterious" (to say the very least) is ludicrous.

It's inconceivable to look at that and think "Nah."

Yes, maybe people in Texas have guns. Yes, maybe Texas has a high murder rate.

But this wasn't a regular old shooting. This was the President, the guy who shot him, and the guy who shot the assassin.

What about this DOESN'T stink to high heaven!?

Even a surface-level summary of the events should make you think "WTF."
 
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Let me flip that around. Do you really, really not see how ridiculous and naive it sounds when people deny the obvious?

Edward Snowden, a low-level government employee, came forward years ago and said "Guys, even I could have read President Obama's emails! And I was just a low-level member of Big Brother!"

You are fooling yourself if you think the NSA doesn't spy on ex-military. Not just the NSA, either!

Shoot, they were even spying on Mother Theresa and the Pope and Princess Diana, when they were alive. By their own admission.
No, Snowden worked for a government subcontractor. He didn't come forward, he reached out to the Russian FSB first for protection, and currently resides in Russia.

Why would the NSA waste resources on veterans? The VA can't be bothered, maybe we should get the NSA to take over. No, I don't take you seriously.

Oh, and Mother Theresa and Princess Diana were foreigners, and fair game.
 
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