RFK Jr, vaccines, and autism

[Pixel42]

I still think this disgusting story is proof that so-called "conspiracies" are real.

I think this disgusting story is proof that people sometimes do incredibly stupid things.

I still think Save the Children wasn't all that innocent in this fiasco.

I think there is no good reason to think that.

I still wonder how effective the Covid vaccine is, since you wind up just getting Covid anyway.

I think there is no good reason to wonder that, as the evidence that the Covid vaccine vastly reduces the severity of the disease, and has consequently saved many thousands of lives, is overwhelming.

You do know how vaccines work, right? They don't create some kind of force field around your body, which prevents the virus entering it. They teach your immune system how to deal with the virus when it does enter your body, so it starts dealing with it straight away and there isn't time for it to multiply and overwhelm your defences whilst your immune system is still learning how to deal wih it.

I still wonder if the jailed guy was just a fall guy for the real culprits.

I think there is no good reason to think that.

I still don't blame African-Americans and Muslims for being suspicious of medical treatments.

There we agree. That's why doing what they did was so incredibly stupid.

 

[PookieBear]

Look up "conspiracy" in the dictionary! It means "make secret plans jointly to commit an unlawful or harmful act."

That is precisely what Save the Children and the CIA did.

It wasn't "stupid", either. It was deliberate and nasty and malicious.

They knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

 

[arthwollipot]

That is precisely what Save the Children and the CIA did.

You have zero evidence that Save the Children were culpable.

 

[Norman Alexander]

For a disinformation agent from St Petersburg, PB is not very good at the job...

 

[Chris_Halkides]

"Germ theory aficionados, in contrast, blame disease on microscopic pathogens. Their approach to health is to identify the culpable germ and tailor a poison to kill it. Miasmists complain that those patented poisons may themselves further weaken the immune system, or simply open damaged terrain to a competitive germ or cause chronic disease…When a starving African child succumbs to measles, the miasmist attributes the death to malnutrition; germ theory proponents (a.k.a. virologists) blame the virus."

RFK Jr. wrote this passage, which is quoted here. It does not deal directly with autism, but it might bear on why RFK holds his beliefs about autism indirectly. This passage is clearly pertinent to vaccines, as well as other medications. RFK Jr. might believe in some variation of terrain theory, and he may not accept the germ theory.

 

[Norman Alexander]

"Germ theory aficionados, in contrast, blame disease on microscopic pathogens. Their approach to health is to identify the culpable germ and tailor a poison to kill it. Miasmists complain that those patented poisons may themselves further weaken the immune system, or simply open damaged terrain to a competitive germ or cause chronic disease…When a starving African child succumbs to measles, the miasmist attributes the death to malnutrition; germ theory proponents (a.k.a. virologists) blame the virus."

RFK Jr. wrote this passage, which is quoted here. It does not deal directly with autism, but it might bear on why RFK holds his beliefs about autism indirectly. This passage is clearly pertinent to vaccines, as well as other medications. RFK Jr. might believe in some variation of terrain theory, and he may not accept the germ theory.

That's pretty much the starting point for homoeopathy.

 

[PookieBear]

You have zero evidence that Save the Children were culpable.

The dude who was arrested said, "Yo, I was recruited through this bogus so-called charity! They introduced me to the CIA, man!"

Not in those words, of course- but he admitted it.

There you have it, straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[Thermal]

The dude who was arrested said, "Yo, I was recruited through this bogus so-called charity! They introduced me to the CIA, man!"

Not in those words, of course- but he admitted it.

There you have it, straight from the horse's mout

If some dude said that Elvis recruited him during an alien anal probing, that ain't evidence of jack ◊◊◊◊ either.

"Evidence" stands alone, without someone telling a story about it. We can see evidence without the story teller. That's what seperates evidence from claims. Do you really not get that?

 

[PookieBear]

It's the CIA. Of course they are going to say "We didn't do it." Of course their minions (a bogus charity) are going to say "We didn't do it."

People in positions of authority lie. They got caught doing something illegal. Of course they are going to play innocent.

On another note, conspiracies are a completely separate thing from Bigfoot and ancient aliens.

MKultra was real. Watergate was real. The sabotage of the Black Panthers was real. The Bay of Pigs was real. Kennedy's plots to kill Castro and Trujillo and the leader of Vietnam (and blame it on a coup by the man's own generals) were real. The shady airport at Mena....that was real, too. The CIA actually planted crack in the ghetto and killed the reporter who exposed it.

These things aren't "paranoia." They are demonstrably true.

 

[Thermal]

It's the CIA. Of course they are going to say "We didn't do it." Of course their minions (a bogus charity) are going to say "We didn't do it."

People in positions of authority lie. They got caught doing something illegal. Of course they are going to play innocent.

On another note, conspiracies are a completely separate thing from Bigfoot and ancient aliens.

MKultra was real. Watergate was real. The sabotage of the Black Panthers was real. The Bay of Pigs was real. Kennedy's plots to kill Castro and Trujillo and the leader of Vietnam (and blame it on a coup by the man's own generals) were real. The shady airport at Mena....that was real, too. The CIA actually planted crack in the ghetto and killed the reporter who exposed it.

These things aren't "paranoia." They are demonstrably true.

Yes. MKUltra and the Bay of Pigs and all were real. But they have been... drum roll drum roll drum roll...evidenced. That doesn't mean unevidenced claims about the CIA are valid. That's a variety of different fallacies, depending on the angle you take, but Origin Fallacy describes it well

 

[PookieBear]

While I am on the subject, it's great to believe in the scientific method- but at a certain point, you have to apply common sense, too.

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of Rule 11 removed.

Please read your membership Agreement.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[Pixel42]

While I am on the subject, it's great to believe in the scientific method- but at a certain point, you have to apply common sense, too.

Common sense says the earth is flat, and the sun goes round the earth. Common sense convinced our ancestors that doing a raindance made it rain, and that bleeding and purging were effective medical treatments.

Common sense has proved to be a very poor guide to how the world works, which is why the scientific method had to be invented. The scientific method consists to a large extent of a set of techniques for carefully and methodically eliminating all of the ways in which our cognitive biases - our common sense - can fool us into believing things which aren't true.

Most of modern physics is counterintuitive.

 

[junkshop]

The dude who was arrested said, "Yo, I was recruited through this bogus so-called charity! They introduced me to the CIA, man!"

Not in those words, of course- but he admitted it.

Citation, please.

There you have it, straight from the horse's mouth.

No, there we have it according to your admittedly inaccurate and unevidenced retelling.

You have provided no evidence for your claim.

 

[junkshop]

...When you leave the military, you are under constant surveillance for the rest of your life, cause the feds fear you might "join a different government". Airport security pulls you over if you are merely taking a plane on vacation...

Citation, please.

Please note: just saying a thing is 'common sense' is not evidence.


ETA: Pixel42 addresses the whole 'common sense' argument better than I.

 

[PookieBear]

Yeah, but this is different. This isn't medicine or physics or astronomy.

This is history, a different field.

Kennedy was having sex with a tramp who was also the mistress of the largest mob boss in Chicago. She served as a messenger between Kennedy and the mob boss, who was Capone's successor. She was agitating the Mob to attack Castro, as revenge for the Mafia losing their casinos in Cuba.

People assumed this was a crazy conspiracy theory, too, cause it seemed too fantastical to believe. Well, guess what. It was apparently true. The slut even produced Kennedy's numbers at the White House, IIRC. Just cause it seemed extraordinary doesn't mean it wasn't real.

 

[PookieBear]

Citation, please.

Please note: just saying a thing is 'common sense' is not evidence.


ETA: Pixel42 addresses the whole 'common sense' argument better than I.

I used to know a guy who had left the military and worked at an office in Manhattan. He and I worked at the same office.

He complained that even in civilian life, he kept getting pulled over by security at the airport.

Not even complained, actually. He was just amused by it.

 

[junkshop]

I used to know a guy who had left the military and worked at an office in Manhattan. He and I worked at the same office.

He complained that even in civilian life, he kept getting pulled over by security at the airport.

Not even complained, actually. He was just amused by it.

This is not evidence.

This is an unsupported anecdote.

 

[junkshop]

Yeah, but this is different. This isn't medicine or physics or astronomy.

This is history, a different field.

Kennedy was having sex with a tramp who was also the mistress of the largest mob boss in Chicago. She served as a messenger between Kennedy and the mob boss, who was Capone's successor. She was agitating the Mob to attack Castro, as revenge for the Mafia losing their casinos in Cuba.

People assumed this was a crazy conspiracy theory, too, cause it seemed too fantastical to believe. Well, guess what. It was apparently true. The slut even produced Kennedy's numbers at the White House, IIRC. Just cause it seemed extraordinary doesn't mean it wasn't real.

This is not evidence.

This is an unsupported anecdote.

 

[PookieBear]

This article is really long. It takes forever to read, just to warn you:

LRB · Seymour M. Hersh · The Killing of Osama bin Laden

It’s been four years since a group of US Navy Seals assassinated Osama bin Laden in a night raid on a high-walled compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. The killing was the high point of Obama’s first term, and a major factor in his re-election. The White House still maintains that the . . .

web.archive.org

Hersh says this guy was just "a sacrificial lamb."

 

[PookieBear]

This is not evidence.

This is an unsupported anecdote.

For heaven's sake, this is common knowledge.

Just read about it.

Judith Exner - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org