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Environmentalism speech by Michael Crichton and second hand smoking

Lucifuge Rofocale said:
I read the speech "Enviromentalism as a religion" by Michael Crichton (http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote05.html) and I agree almos completely. The only fact that I haven't been able to verify is this :
"I can tell you that second hand smoke is not a health hazard to anyone and never was,"

Does anyone have a reliable link to studies that proves it?
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"second hand" smoke is a health hazard to those that are exposed to it for long periods over several years, so he is wrong there is plenty of evidence for this, however "2nd hand smoke" has not been shown to be harmful to those that only have occasional exposure to it.

Always take everything Chrition says with a large pinch of salt, firstly because he has a massive anti science agenda (look at who is alway the bad guy in his fiction, this is someone with one hell of a "Frankenstein" complex), and secondly he is a man you in all seriousness can claim "remember, everyone has an agenda, except me".
 
For no good reason I read most of the article and this is beyond any doubt a rarified pile of drivel.
 
Crichton doesn't like science, or acts that way, and does his best to scare the public away from science.

But he never did anything as bad as "Mutant 59-The Plastic Eaters".
 
Well, I'm strictly following that article. So far, the hard claims are:
"I can tell you that second hand smoke is not a health hazard to anyone and never was, and the EPA has always known it. " Unverified

"I can tell you that the evidence for global warming is far weaker than its proponents would ever admit." That's so right!

" I can tell you the percentage the US land area that is taken by urbanization, including cities and roads, is 5%." Verified


" I can tell you that the Sahara desert is shrinking" Verified

" and the total ice of Antarctica is increasing. " Verified

"I can tell you that a blue-ribbon panel in Science magazine concluded that there is no known technology that will enable us to halt the rise of carbon dioxide in the 21st century. Not wind, not solar, not even nuclear. The panel concluded a totally new technology-like nuclear fusion-was necessary, otherwise nothing could be done and in the meantime all efforts would be a waste of time. They said that when the UN IPCC reports stated alternative technologies existed that could control greenhouse gases, the UN was wrong." All right

So, I can't comment about all Crichton writings, just this speech and it seems all right to me, just that simple bit I'm not able to verify
 
Mark said:
Neither are popcorn flavored jelly beans. But if someone tries to force them into my mouth without my consent, surely I can object?
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Maybe we also should ban farting in public places? ;)

I'm not arguing your point, I'm just trying to see is the second hand smoking risk is real
 
brodski said:
"second hand" smoke is a health hazard to those that are exposed to it for long periods over several years, so he is wrong there is plenty of evidence for this, however "2nd hand smoke" has not been shown to be harmful to those that only have occasional exposure to it.

Always take everything Chrition says with a large pinch of salt, firstly because he has a massive anti science agenda (look at who is alway the bad guy in his fiction, this is someone with one hell of a "Frankenstein" complex), and secondly he is a man you in all seriousness can claim "remember, everyone has an agenda, except me".
Click to expand...

I'm doing just that, verifying each single claim. I like THAT particular article. You claim also that 2nd hand smoking has not been shown to be risky. But also, I'd like to see some links, have you?
 
Lucifuge Rofocale said:
Well, I'm strictly following that article. So far, the hard claims are:
"I can tell you that second hand smoke is not a health hazard to anyone and never was, and the EPA has always known it. " Unverified

"I can tell you that the evidence for global warming is far weaker than its proponents would ever admit." That's so right!

" I can tell you the percentage the US land area that is taken by urbanization, including cities and roads, is 5%." Verified


" I can tell you that the Sahara desert is shrinking" Verified

" and the total ice of Antarctica is increasing. " Verified

"I can tell you that a blue-ribbon panel in Science magazine concluded that there is no known technology that will enable us to halt the rise of carbon dioxide in the 21st century. Not wind, not solar, not even nuclear. The panel concluded a totally new technology-like nuclear fusion-was necessary, otherwise nothing could be done and in the meantime all efforts would be a waste of time. They said that when the UN IPCC reports stated alternative technologies existed that could control greenhouse gases, the UN was wrong." All right

So, I can't comment about all Crichton writings, just this speech and it seems all right to me, just that simple bit I'm not able to verify
Click to expand...

Perhaps you could supply the verifications you've uncovered to save redoing the research.

Thanks
 
Lucifuge Rofocale said:
Well, I'm strictly following that article. So far, the hard claims are:
...
"I can tell you that the evidence for global warming is far weaker than its proponents would ever admit." That's so right!
Click to expand...
This statement is too vague to merit debate. Sure, there are some that overyhype GW as there are some who overhype anything/everything. He and you need to be more specific.

" and the total ice of Antarctica is increasing. " Verified
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The section of Antarctica that is thickening is caused by GW -- it's no longer too cold for percipitation. And this section is the single exception in the world. As someone posted here a while back, not only is this a cherry-pick, but it's a cherry-pick of the single odd cherry.
 
Lucifuge Rofocale said:
Maybe we also should ban farting in public places? ;)

I'm not arguing your point, I'm just trying to see is the second hand smoking risk is real
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My point is that even if it is not any health risk at all, why can't I have at least some say whether or not I put it in my lungs?
 
Lucifuge Rofocale said:
I'm doing just that, verifying each single claim. I like THAT particular article. You claim also that 2nd hand smoking has not been shown to be risky. But also, I'd like to see some links, have you?
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Unfortunately not, my knowledge of the whole ETS issue is based on a Health and Safety policy making course I did about 4 years ago, in which we where presented the most up to date evidence on all sides of the issue, and asked to make a judgment on how far the law should be applied in respect to ETS.
I haven't kept up with the issue since.
 
Lucifuge Rofocale said:
I can. The book and references used are online and free. The only bit that may trouble you is that it is in Spanish. Please go to http://www.mitosyfraudes.8k.com/. There are sections in English IIRC
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Not a problem for some of us.

But your "verifications" come from an Argentine "organization" with an axe to grind set up under a free web site. It refers to global warming as a "fraud." You're basically checking anti-GW claims against...Anti-GW claims.

Yep--I'm certainly convinced. Nothing says unbiased and scientific like a site like that.
 
Isn't it the Arctic ice that's shrinking?

I read in the news, not very long ago, that several governments believe in the phenomenon enough to start wrangling over who will control what parts of a future Northwest Passage.
 
brodski said:
Always take everything Chrition says with a large pinch of salt, firstly because he has a massive anti science agenda (look at who is alway the bad guy in his fiction, this is someone with one hell of a "Frankenstein" complex), and secondly he is a man you in all seriousness can claim "remember, everyone has an agenda, except me".
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And don't forget Crichton is the guy who became a believer telekensis after attending a spoon-bending party in the 80s.

Todd Gitlin quotes from Barnes' Bush book on TPMCAFE:

"Though he didn't say so publicly, Bush is a dissenter on the theory of global warming....He avidly read Michael Crichton's 2004 novel State of Fear, whose villain falsifies scientific studies to justify draconian steps to curb global warming....Early in 2005, political adviser Karl Rove arranged for Crichton to meet with Bush at the White House. They talked for an hour and were in near-total agreement. The visit was not made public for fear of outraging environmentalist s all the more."
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It's almost unbelievable, I know. Whaaaaat? Bush reading? "Avidly" no less.
 
Cleon said:
Not a problem for some of us.
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That's great


But your "verifications" come from an Argentine "organization" with an axe to grind set up under a free web site. It refers to global warming as a "fraud." You're basically checking anti-GW claims against...Anti-GW claims.
Click to expand...

So far I have seem that the site is extremely well documented. There are not anti GW claims in the site, they just say that there is not human activity that causes it. Can you please comment about chapter 1 of the book, wich deals with GW?.
Yep--I'm certainly convinced. Nothing says unbiased and scientific like a site like that.
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I'm guiding myself from the references and they look good to me.
 
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brodski said:
Unfortunately not, my knowledge of the whole ETS issue is based on a Health and Safety policy making course I did about 4 years ago, in which we where presented the most up to date evidence on all sides of the issue, and asked to make a judgment on how far the law should be applied in respect to ETS.
I haven't kept up with the issue since.
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That's bad news to me. Please if you happen to see something about that on either side of the debate let me know . Thanks
 
TragicMonkey said:
Isn't it the Arctic ice that's shrinking?

I read in the news, not very long ago, that several governments believe in the phenomenon enough to start wrangling over who will control what parts of a future Northwest Passage.
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Several governments also believe in the Kyoto protocol . The issue is still open for me
 
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