Merged The razor of Hitchens and the Spirits!

[P.J. Denyer]

What do you think you're going to achieve here? Do you actually know anything about the history of this site?

 

[Thermal]

What do you think you're going to achieve here? Do you actually know anything about the history of this site?

Hey, hey, hey. He has stumbled upon this one weird trick that will rock skepticism to its core. And *checks notes* apparently Mesmerism. You wanna go? Huh? I said Mesmerism, man.

 

[JayUtah]

but why?

For the reasons I already gave.

 

[JayUtah]

why do you only accept empirical evidence?

I accept only testable evidence for certain propositions, because it can be tested and thereby avoid exactly the kinds of attributional errors you advocate. Existential propositions must be supported affirmatively by testable evidence. Otherwise it's just vigorously advocated pretense.

 

[JayUtah]

but why?

For the reasons I gave. Your arguments generally fall into one of three categories (1) begging the question, (2) shifting the burden of proof, and (3) circular reasoning. Those kinds of arguments are weak and wrong, and thereby fail to convince.

 

[JayUtah]

Although there is no concrete evidence for the existence of spirits, this does not mean that they cannot exist.

Irrelevant straw man. We do not have to prove they cannot exist in order to conclude that there is no credible evidence that they do.

This line of reasoning challenges the idea that science should have all the answers.

Irrelevant straw man. Science does not claim to have all the answers. You may choose to believe what you wish according to what evidence you wish. However, if you want to convince skeptics that your belief is factual, you will need to provide testable evidence.

 

[JayUtah]

empirical evidence is not the sole arbiter of truth in discussions about the existence of spirits.

Testable evidence is by far the best proven way to establish the truth or falsity of a proposition, including the proposition that certain phenomena exist. Begging people to accept a lower standard of proof does not establish that you have a credible proposition.

 

[JayUtah]

What do you think you're going to achieve here? Do you actually know anything about the history of this site?

Apparently the goal is to drive engagement. I don't see much behavior consistent with reasoned debate.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I hope posters here realise they are not in a discussion with a human. This is a Turing test.

 

[Thermal]

Ok, ya caught me.

 

[JayUtah]

I hope posters here realise they are not in a discussion with a human. This is a Turing test.

Indeed it sounds very much like the old ELIZA algorithm that would just sew things together and then ask general continuation questions when it got into a rut.

 

[arthwollipot]

Can Allan Kardec's books be empirical evidence of the existence of spirits?

Allan Kardec's books are empirical evidence of the existence of Allan Kardec's books.

Can J.R.R. Tolkien's books be empirical evidence of the existence of balrogs?

 

[Joe Random]

Allan Kardec's books are empirical evidence of the existence of Allan Kardec's books.

Can J.R.R. Tolkien's books be empirical evidence of the existence of balrogs?

Challenge to the spiritualists : prove one way or the other if Balrogs did or did not have literal wings. If you can then I might consider believing.

 

[Pixel42]

I hope posters here realise they are not in a discussion with a human. This is a Turing test.

I'm still not sure. He says he's in Brazil, where spiritism is well established and popular thanks to a supposed medium named Chico Xavier, who he's mentioned several times. Someone growing up there could easily have been unlucky enough to have been immersed in this particular woo since birth.

Chico Xavier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

His appearances on TV talk shows in the late 1960s and early 1970s helped to establish Spiritism as one of the major religions professed in Brazil with more than 5 million followers. Despite his health problems he kept working up to his death, on June 30, 2002, in Uberaba. In 2010, a movie biography entitled Chico Xavier was released in Brazil. Directed by Daniel Filho, the film dramatized Xavier's life.

On October 3, 2012, the SBT television TV show O Maior Brasileiro de Todos os Tempos named Chico Xavier "The Greatest Brazilian of all time", based on a viewer-supported survey.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I'm still not sure. He says he's in Brazil, where spiritism is well established and popular thanks to a supposed medium named Chico Xavier, who he's mentioned several times. Someone growing up there could easily have been unlucky enough to have been immersed in this particular woo since birth.

Chico Xavier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He is feeding our answers into an AI which is seeded with spiritist and Xavier data, then posting the outcome.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Belief in spiritism reduced the suicide rate!

Unevidenced assertions are not evidence.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

why do you only accept empirical evidence?

Because it is the only form of evidence that is demonstrable and independently repeatable.

 

[Pixel42]

He is feeding our answers into an AI which is seeded with spiritist and Xavier data, then posting the outcome.

He's certainly using an AI, but I'm not convinced he needs to seed it with anything.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Maybe if he seeded it with something fresh it wouldn't keep repeating the same responses.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Belief in spiritism reduced the suicide rate!

I'll be requiring some very good evidence on that one, as I am very familiar with suicidology literature, that being an area of especial interest in my former professional life.

And when I say very good I really do mean it, not some blanket assertion: good stats that I can actually look at, psychological autopsy style studies, epidemiology, y'know, the full works. Go look up the Oxford team's work to give you an idea.

Anything less than that and I know you are spouting bovine manure.

On you go then.