Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Cosmic Yak]

Much debate on this thread is about questioning me the OP about my assertions (and rightly so), but posters are a little reluctant to actually state their own stance / involvement / consumption etc (which is understandable). Knowing and having a defined position of someone with whom I am debating with would help.

I answered those questions. However, as Lithrael and I have both pointed out, this is poisoning the well. I do not accept your framing of the question as wanting to find out where I stood: there are much, much better ways of doing that. You were, it seems to me, trying to get past my arguments by asserting that I was getting paid to argue against you, and that I had some sort of vested interest in abusing children. That is a deeply nasty and dishonest thing to do.

 

[Poem]

And has that changed significantly over the years? 11 seemed to be the 'normal' age to first encounter it when I was young, when you started at senior school, though in those days it was magazines. Undoubtedly some, particularly those with older siblings, would see it earlier. What has changed is the nature of the porn children might be exposed to.

Correct (Children's Commissioner):

We also find that young people are frequently exposed to violent pornography, depicting coercive, degrading or pain-inducing sex acts; 79% had encountered violent pornography before the age of 18.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Correct (Children's Commissioner):

We also find that young people are frequently exposed to violent pornography, depicting coercive, degrading or pain-inducing sex acts; 79% had encountered violent pornography before the age of 18.

Also from that report:

Pornography is not confined to dedicated adult sites. We found that Twitter was the online platform where young people were most likely to have seen pornography. Fellow mainstream social networking platforms Instagram and Snapchat rank closely after dedicated pornography sites.

Poem, perhaps you should turn your attention to X, as it is a bigger problem than dedicated porn sites, plus Instagram and Snapchat.
Then there's this:

At the time of publication, the UK’s landmark Online Safety Bill is making its way through Parliament. It holds the promise of, finally, regulating pornography sites and ensuring that they implement robust age verification to protect children. Now is a vital moment to ensure that we understand the impact of pornography on children’s lives, and to legislate for a commensurate response.

I have already posted about this Bill, and how it is designed to address the problem of children being able to access porn sites. You have ignored this, presumably because it negates your endlessly-repeated point that society doesn't care, and isn't doing anything about it.

 

[Poem]

Rachel De Souza as a witness to the Education Committee - Oral evidence: Screen Time: Impacts on education and wellbeing, HC 118:

Some of our more recent research shows that half of children aged 13 have seen serious pornography. I am not talking about top-shelf mag stuff. I am talking about coercive, unpleasant, horrible things. About 25% had seen that at age eight or nine. Often, they might not have their own phone and someone is showing it to them. This is a problem.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Rachel De Souza as a witness to the Education Committee - Oral evidence: Screen Time: Impacts on education and wellbeing, HC 118:

Some of our more recent research shows that half of children aged 13 have seen serious pornography. I am not talking about top-shelf mag stuff. I am talking about coercive, unpleasant, horrible things. About 25% had seen that at age eight or nine. Often, they might not have their own phone and someone is showing it to them. This is a problem.

Repetetively spamming the same quotes is also a problem.

 

[Poem]

Rachel De Souza as a witness to the Education Committee - Oral evidence: Screen Time: Impacts on education and wellbeing, HC 118:

Some of our more recent research shows that half of children aged 13 have seen serious pornography. I am not talking about top-shelf mag stuff. I am talking about coercive, unpleasant, horrible things. About 25% had seen that at age eight or nine. Often, they might not have their own phone and someone is showing it to them. This is a problem.

Poem, have you posted this quote before?
No.

 

[Poem]

I'll repost this as there is clearly some interest in it as a response to recent questions (though, of course, anyone could have quickly looked back to check) :
#1,252

Stating that it is wrong to fuel the porn industry at the expense of minors (and, indeed, society as a whole) does not implicate anyone here in particular. There is nothing wrong with stating what is factual (at least in the opinion of the poster).

I used to watch porn - so I have played my part.

I would suggest your post constitutes a lack of awareness on the magnitude of this. Sure, you disagree - but what of people like Wilberforce? Discussing the issue of slavery would also have engendered such uncomfortable insinuations.

This will always be an uncomfortable subject.

 

[Poem]

I have made a good few references to X in past posts. (if you think I haven't then you are not following). They are (maybe, rather, were as Musk has changed X since summer of this year) indeed where most children first see (saw) porn (in the UK at least).

 

[Poem]

First, you really should link to your sources. Second, I've said for quite some time that there's a rape culture in Islamic societies. Even though this seems to have happened in France, the name suggests that this may be part of Islamic culture more than French culture. And while porn is an easy scapegoat for his behavior, I'm skeptical that's the true source of the problem. It's politically incorrect to blame the regressive view of sexuality in Muslim societies, but I bet that's a much bigger factor.

As a reminder - you were replying to:
Among the nearly two dozen defendants who testified during the trial's first seven weeks was Ahmed T. — French defendants’ full last names are generally withheld until conviction. The married plumber with three kids and five grandchildren said he wasn’t particularly alarmed that Pelicot wasn't moving when he visited her and her now-ex-husband's house in the small Provence town of Mazan in 2019. It reminded him of porn he had watched featuring women who “pretend to be asleep and don’t react,” he said.

This from the BBC (11th December 2024)
Since the start of the trial, much has been made of the need to find an element that ties all these men together. A common denominator – beside the fact that all the men went to the Pelicots' of their own free will - "remains nowhere to be found," Gisèle's own lawyers have said.

However, we also have this from a more recent BBC article (by Louise Chunn on 23 December 2024):
Children who regularly viewed porn on mobiles before puberty inevitably grow up with different sexual expectations than those aroused by Playboy in the 20th century. While no direct causal link has been established, there is substantial evidence of an association between the use of pornography and harmful sexual attitudes and behaviours towards women. According to government research before the Covid-19 pandemic: "There is evidence that use of pornography is associated with greater likelihood of desiring or engaging in sexual acts witnessed in porn, and a greater likelihood of believing women want to engage in these specific acts."

I asked about evidence regarding your claim that Islam might be the problem?

 

[Darat]

As a reminder - you were replying to:
Among the nearly two dozen defendants who testified during the trial's first seven weeks was Ahmed T. — French defendants’ full last names are generally withheld until conviction. The married plumber with three kids and five grandchildren said he wasn’t particularly alarmed that Pelicot wasn't moving when he visited her and her now-ex-husband's house in the small Provence town of Mazan in 2019. It reminded him of porn he had watched featuring women who “pretend to be asleep and don’t react,” he said.

This from the BBC (11th December 2024)
Since the start of the trial, much has been made of the need to find an element that ties all these men together. A common denominator – beside the fact that all the men went to the Pelicots' of their own free will - "remains nowhere to be found," Gisèle's own lawyers have said.

However, we also have this from a more recent BBC article (by Louise Chunn on 23 December 2024):
Children who regularly viewed porn on mobiles before puberty inevitably grow up with different sexual expectations than those aroused by Playboy in the 20th century. While no direct causal link has been established, there is substantial evidence of an association between the use of pornography and harmful sexual attitudes and behaviours towards women. According to government research before the Covid-19 pandemic: "There is evidence that use of pornography is associated with greater likelihood of desiring or engaging in sexual acts witnessed in porn, and a greater likelihood of believing women want to engage in these specific acts."

I asked about evidence regarding your claim that Islam might be the problem?

"While no direct causal link has been established....."

 

[Poem]

"While no direct causal link has been established....."

The world is wondering why M. Pelicot and over 50 men abused his wife as they did; Ziggurat's suggestion does not seem likely.

I posted this before:
Céline Piques, a spokesperson of the feminist group Osez le Féminisme!, or Dare Feminism!, said...hundreds of videos of men having sex with seemingly passed out women can be found online...

Viewing such normalization would facilitate the next step for some men. We have normalized to the extent of rule 34 and it seems we are picking up the pieces.

 

[Poem]

The law must be changed to tackle the impact of easily available sexually violent imagery, says UK Criminal Barrister Gareth Roberts (Byline Times article - 19 Dec 2024):

My personal view, based upon the anecdotal evidence of prosecuting and defending in dozens of sexual cases each year for 25 years, is that the prevalence of pornography is a massive contributor to the increase in sexual violence towards women.

Increasingly often, the sexual offence cases I am involved with have a defendant who has an inclination towards the habitual use of pornography, often involving rape, torture and children. I wasn’t surprised when the details of Pelicot’s use of online pornography and his distribution of sexualised images and videos of his wife and other female members of his family were disclosed by the court.

 

[Poem]

Somebody mentioned the Online Safety Act (mentioned many times previously) - well Barrister Roberts goes on to say:

The Online Safety Act (2023), already seems outdated and the woefully inadequate powers and resources given to OFCOM to regulate the gargantuan monolith that is the internet are like the trying to stop a tsunami with a paddle. The penalties for failing to protect children range from the non-existent to the simply inadequate.

 

[Poem]

...........................................................

 

[Lithrael]

Viewing such normalization would facilitate the next step for some men. We have normalized to the extent of rule 34 and it seems we are picking up the pieces.

This is the only line of your argument I can't parse. Rule 34 is shock/comedy/fandom stuff. Nobody... and I really do mean absolutely nobody, is getting to an abusive place via the stepping stone of rule 34. And also it's been around for twenty years.

 

[Poem]

This is the only line of your argument I can't parse. Rule 34 is shock/comedy/fandom stuff. Nobody... and I really do mean absolutely nobody, is getting to an abusive place via the stepping stone of rule 34. And also it's been around for twenty years.

Er...Rule 34 just means that if it exists there is porn for it.

 

[Darat]

The world is wondering why M. Pelicot and over 50 men abused his wife as they did; Ziggurat's suggestion does not seem likely.

I posted this before:
Céline Piques, a spokesperson of the feminist group Osez le Féminisme!, or Dare Feminism!, said...hundreds of videos of men having sex with seemingly passed out women can be found online...

Viewing such normalization would facilitate the next step for some men. We have normalized to the extent of rule 34 and it seems we are picking up the pieces.

"While no direct causal link has been established....."

 

[Darat]

Somebody mentioned the Online Safety Act (mentioned many times previously) - well Barrister Roberts goes on to say:

The Online Safety Act (2023), already seems outdated and the woefully inadequate powers and resources given to OFCOM to regulate the gargantuan monolith that is the internet are like the trying to stop a tsunami with a paddle. The penalties for failing to protect children range from the non-existent to the simply inadequate.

I agree with that, it should have much more severe punishments, including of course for those that allow kids to access porn i.e. their parents and guardians.

 

[Poem]

I agree with that, it should have much more severe punishments, including of course for those that allow kids to access porn i.e. their parents and guardians.

Do you also agree with De Souza's analysis (Tech companies must listen to children (17th July 2024))

"In its current form, this is a Children’s Code that protects corporations, not children."

"It wasn’t written with children in mind, but tech firms and lawyers."

"Children’s voices are entirely missing from this code, despite being intended to protect them."

"...how many times are we going to let children be the victims of tech companies’ inability to put protection before profits?"

"As one of my young Ambassadors told tech companies directly: 'X is actually Triple X.'”

 

[Darat]

Do you also agree with De Souza's analysis (Tech companies must listen to children (17th July 2024))

"In its current form, this is a Children’s Code that protects corporations, not children."

"It wasn’t written with children in mind, but tech firms and lawyers."

"Children’s voices are entirely missing from this code, despite being intended to protect them."

"...how many times are we going to let children be the victims of tech companies’ inability to put protection before profits?"

"As one of my young Ambassadors told tech companies directly: 'X is actually Triple X.'”

Overall its aims and ambitions were fine but the final bill is a crap piece of legislation.

But to go back to the point you keep ignoring, one that is from your own posts of content you think should be considered "..."While no direct causal link has been established....."...."