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Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32
- Thread starter LondonJohn
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Hear, hear. Complete her rightful sentence for what she did to Mez.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
Thankfully, that's one New Year's wish you'll never have granted.
The case against Knox - and Sollecito - alleging that they were involved in the murder/rape of Kercher ended, with no legal possibility of being renewed, with their definitive final acquittal in 2015.on
What may happen in 2025:
An ECHR verdict on the ECHR case Sollecito v. Italy 1157/18 (Lodged 22 Dec 2017; Communicated to Italy 1 Feb 2022). See:
HUDOC - European Court of Human Rights
The HUDOC database provides access to the case-law of the Court (Grand Chamber, Chamber and Committee judgments and decisions, communicated cases, advisory opinions and legal summaries from the Case-Law Information Note), the European Commission of Human Rights (decisions and reports) and the...
hudoc.echr.coe.int
An Italian CSC verdict on Knox's appeal against her 2024 re-conviction for calunnia against Lumumba; the re-conviction resulted from an Italian Appeals court trial based on the new Italian law meant to provide retrials for those found in an ECHR verdict to have been unfairly convicted. We'll see at some time (2025 or 2026) in this case whether Italy can actually follow its own laws fairly.
Possibly, under Italian law, Sollecito's eventual compensation for wrongful detention could be less than his expenditures for his defense on the murder/rape charges and his appeal for compensation for wrongful detention. (Recall that Sollecito was never finally convicted for any crime.) This is based on CPP Articles 314 and 315, which limit total compensation for wrongful detention to 516,456.90 Euros.
Knox's situation is different for two reasons.
First, she did not apply for compensation for unjust detention within the legal time limit (two years after final acquittal - for the murder/rape charges) as required under CPP Article 315. This may have been because at that time she remained finally convicted of the calunnia against Lumumba charge. If and when she is finally acquitted on that charge, it is not clear to me that she would be legally entitled to seek compensation for wrongful detention under CPP Article 315.
Second, if and when she is finally acquitted of the calunnia charge, she would be entitled to compensation for miscarriage of justice for the conviction and detention under the calunnia charge and possibly for the conviction and detention under the murder/rape charges, under CPP Article 643. There are no limitations on the amount of compensation that may be awarded according to that law, except that the compensation must be commensurate with the duration of the time served in detention and the personal and family consequences of the conviction.
See:
https://www.altalex.com/documents/codici-altalex/2014/10/30/codice-di-procedura-penale
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TomG
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03.11.2024
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I'm wondering what the old fox is up to. What did he mean by having "left something incomplete" in the trials? He should know by now that the case is irreconcilable due to legal fiction that underpins it. It won't go away until that's resolved.
Ex pm caso Meredith, è il momento di chiudere questa storia - Notizie - Ansa.it
Invita a "chiudere, a mettere la parola fine" sulla vicenda dell'omicidio di Meredith Kercher, Giuliano Mignini, magistrato ora in pensione che ha coordinato le indagini sul delitto di Perugia e poi ha rappresentato l'accusa nel processo. (ANSA)
www.ansa.it
I'm wondering what the old fox is up to. What did he mean by having "left something incomplete" in the trials? He should know by now that the case is irreconcilable due to legal fiction that underpins it. It won't go away until that's resolved.
It's true that the trials were incomplete in major respects. That is what the ECHR final judgment Knox v. Italy found: Italy had violated Convention Article 3, procedural limb. The trials did not order a prosecutor to effectively and independently investigate Knox's credible claims of mistreatment by the authorities during the interrogations. Furthermore, the ECHR judgment found that the trials were fatally flawed - unfair - because they did not address the issues of the denial of a defense lawyer for Knox during the interrogations although the courts relied on statements she had made in those interrogations (a violation of Italian law, CPP Article 63 and others) and of the conduct of the interpreter during the interrogation(s). These court failures contributed to the ECHR finding that Italy had violated Convention Articles 6.1 with 6.3c and 6.1 with 6.3e.03.11.2024
Ex pm caso Meredith, è il momento di chiudere questa storia - Notizie - Ansa.it
Invita a "chiudere, a mettere la parola fine" sulla vicenda dell'omicidio di Meredith Kercher, Giuliano Mignini, magistrato ora in pensione che ha coordinato le indagini sul delitto di Perugia e poi ha rappresentato l'accusa nel processo. (ANSA)
I'm wondering what the old fox is up to. What did he mean by having "left something incomplete" in the trials? He should know by now that the case is irreconcilable due to legal fiction that underpins it. It won't go away until that's resolved.
See:
HUDOC - European Court of Human Rights
The HUDOC database provides access to the case-law of the Court (Grand Chamber, Chamber and Committee judgments and decisions, communicated cases, advisory opinions and legal summaries from the Case-Law Information Note), the European Commission of Human Rights (decisions and reports) and the...
hudoc.echr.coe.int
HUDOC - European Court of Human Rights
The HUDOC database provides access to the case-law of the Court (Grand Chamber, Chamber and Committee judgments and decisions, communicated cases, advisory opinions and legal summaries from the Case-Law Information Note), the European Commission of Human Rights (decisions and reports) and the...
hudoc.echr.coe.int
TomG
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I've often wondered what "as a whole" means in terms of the proceeding? Do they mean until Amanda DID get a lawyer, or was that too late since the damage was already irreparable and extended to all the court proceedings thereafter? If it means to everything, then the use of the 1st memoriale as a new marker for the start of the case is absolutely flawed, and shouldn't even have been considered.
The only thing that concerns me in that case, is the claim that Amanda allegedly knew (sexual ) aspects of the murder before the investigators which would be untainted by any human rights abuses. This seems to be an incredibly weak argument since you're likely to suspect a sexual motive when Meredith was found semi-naked with a pillow under her hips and her underwear strewn all over the place . The cops are hardly going to miss something like that.
It's the only thing that they'd have left but if Italy can make it stick, I think they'll run with it.
Hoots!
The only thing that concerns me in that case, is the claim that Amanda allegedly knew (sexual ) aspects of the murder before the investigators which would be untainted by any human rights abuses. This seems to be an incredibly weak argument since you're likely to suspect a sexual motive when Meredith was found semi-naked with a pillow under her hips and her underwear strewn all over the place . The cops are hardly going to miss something like that.
It's the only thing that they'd have left but if Italy can make it stick, I think they'll run with it.
Hoots!
The meaning of the finding of violations of Convention Articles 6.1 (unfair trial) with 6.3c (denial of defense lawyer, specifically, during interrogation) and Convention Articles 6.1 (unfair trial) with 6.3e (unfair interpretation, specifically, the behavior of the interpreter was prejudicial) means that the ECHR has judged that Knox's original trials and final conviction for calunnia against Lumumba were unfair as a unit - that is, with all the parts of the proceedings considered together.
In its listing of relevant Italian laws in the text of its final judgment Knox v. Italy, the ECHR includes specific Italian laws on rulings of "nullity" of court cases. These laws were not applied in the calunnia proceedings against Knox, but their inclusion in the ECHR judgment text (paragraph 105) is an implied suggestion that Italy can redress its violations of Convention Article 6.1 in the case by an Italian court decision dismissing the calunnia charges and conviction on the grounds of "nullity". Italian law (CPP Article 178 and others) provides for a dismissal on the grounds of "nullity" when, for example, an accused is denied representation by a defense lawyer at any stage of the proceedings.
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euroneighbour
Student
The decision of the Cassazione Court on the calunnia ruling is scheduled for January 23:
www.ansa.it
Fissata Cassazione per ricorso Knox contro condanna per calunnia - Notizie - Ansa.it
Fissata per il 23 gennaio prossimo l'udienza di Cassazione per esaminare il ricorso presentato dalla difesa di Amanda Knox contro la sentenza della Corte d'assise d'appello di Firenze che, nel giugno scorso, l'ha condannata per calunnia nei confronti di... (ANSA)
www.ansa.it
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
Hopefully, it will be granted.
We can hope that the CSC will have the good sense to understand the ECHR final judgment and the details of the case so that Knox's renewed conviction for calunnia against Lumumba is annulled, by the CSC apply the nullity laws or other relevant laws.
If instead the CSC makes the renewed conviction final, Knox's courses of action include notifying the CoE Department for the Execution of Judgments of the ECHR of the Italian failure to redress Italy's violations of the Convention and, within 4 months of the issuance of a CSC final motivation report, lodging a new case with the ECHR.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
And she'll have years of being in limbo yet again.
TomG
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That surely has a long way to go? It all has to go past the committee of ministers to be considered a final resolution.
The problem seems to be that Italy is weaponising the memoriale that the ECHR deemed to be a retraction. A prompt assignment of a lawyer might also have pre-empted the need for the memoriale in the first place. The ECHR also indicated that the "telephone call with her mother" on the 10th November also was a retraction. I take it that this refers to the prison intercept of the same date that had already been cited as a reiteration of guilt by the Italian courts. If that's the case it seems to me that Italy is in direct conflict with the ECHR judgement,
So why would the COM simply accept Italy's action report as a resolution?
In the intererim, it also looks as though Amanda's defence team as well as non-governmental organisations such as the Italian innocence project can communicate with the committee of ministers, if they think the proceedings are unfair. There may well be others that could intervene if Italy decides to run with it.
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
If I understand correctly the Sacco MR states that they are not obligated to accept the ECHR's decision that the N6 mem. was a recantation/retraction.
Seems like the upcoming SC could say Sacco's court erred in its interpretation somehow. But, not being a lawyer, we'll just have to wait and see.
Thanks for this excellent summary.
The issue here is that the Italian courts sometimes seek to "overrule" the ECHR, by ignoring the treaty obligation of Italy to follow the final judgments of the ECHR and the Italian Constitution's provision (Article 10) that the Italian legal system conforms to international law.
See:
Chris_Halkides
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In 2014 Dena Weiss wrote, "The police processed the crime scene by dusting with fingerprint powder to reveal fingerprints. Of the numerous fingerprints found at the scene, only one print on a water glass in the kitchen was identified as Amanda’s print. Fourteen of the prints were not identified to anyone involved in the case. A key piece of evidence was a bloody palm print found on the pillow under the victim. This was identified as belonging to Rudy Guede, a black immigrant with a history of petty theft and break-ins who often was seen partying with local college students and who had recently met Kercher at a party thrown by basement occupants of the cottage where Knox and Kercher lived (Sayahg, 2010)."
In 2009ABC News reported, "A total of 61 prints were taken into evidence at the scene of the crime. Of these, all but 13 were identified as belonging to various people who had been in the house. Five prints belonged to Sollecito, said Privitera, two of which were found on the outside of Kercher's bedroom door." BTW, I use "fingermarks" when discussing accidentally made impressions, and "fingerprints" when discussing deliberately made impressions.
Guede's palm print is classified as a patent print, because it is obvious to the eye. I remember seeing a map with the locations of presumably latent fingermarks, fingermarks that are revealed through chemical or physical means. The ABC News report implied that Guede did not leave any latent fingermarks. Is that what everyone else remembers? Also (and I regret having to ask this), was ruthenium tetroxide (RTX), used to reveal any fingermarks on Meredith's body? In a quick scan of the literature, I found a journal article discussing RTX being used on a dead body from 2007; therefore, it was probably not in wide use at the time of the murder. Swedish Black powder would be another choice.
In 2009ABC News reported, "A total of 61 prints were taken into evidence at the scene of the crime. Of these, all but 13 were identified as belonging to various people who had been in the house. Five prints belonged to Sollecito, said Privitera, two of which were found on the outside of Kercher's bedroom door." BTW, I use "fingermarks" when discussing accidentally made impressions, and "fingerprints" when discussing deliberately made impressions.
Guede's palm print is classified as a patent print, because it is obvious to the eye. I remember seeing a map with the locations of presumably latent fingermarks, fingermarks that are revealed through chemical or physical means. The ABC News report implied that Guede did not leave any latent fingermarks. Is that what everyone else remembers? Also (and I regret having to ask this), was ruthenium tetroxide (RTX), used to reveal any fingermarks on Meredith's body? In a quick scan of the literature, I found a journal article discussing RTX being used on a dead body from 2007; therefore, it was probably not in wide use at the time of the murder. Swedish Black powder would be another choice.
TomG
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It looks to me that the Florence court was not in a position to evaluate whether it was shareable or not. The ECHR judgement is final and isn't a matter to be quibbled about. So, I'd agree with you in that respect.
I'd still argue that the ECHR judgement regarding the lawyer and interpreter violations are overarching; therefore Italy's considerations on the memoriale are irrelevant. I that that CDV should be arguing that if HE were promptly assigned to assist Amanda on the 6th November he'd never have advised her to make the memoriale in the first place, or at least have advised her on the content. The non-assignment of a lawyer of course undermined the fairness of the proceedings as a whole. In other words the use of the memoriale in the current proceedings is deceptive.
Hoots!