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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

Yeah .. time to start a new Trump coin, I guess. This one's busted.

BTC meanwhile still at ATH levels. 3000% from 6 years back. 600% from 2 years back. And I'm still just about even. Have to rethink my strategies ..
 
Bitcoin is not a moral issue except for the vast amounts of energy expended in its mining.
Which is exactly why I think that Bitcoin - and other currencies that use the same technology should be outlawed, or taxed to extinction.
 
Which is exactly why I think that Bitcoin - and other currencies that use the same technology should be outlawed, or taxed to extinction.
Because outlawing drugs is so effective?
Even if it could be effective (but every country in the world would also have to do it), it's not going to happen. Too many politicians and people like Musk have a stake in it.
 
Because outlawing drugs is so effective?
Even if it could be effective (but every country in the world would also have to do it), it's not going to happen. Too many politicians and people like Musk have a stake in it.
I think that cryptocurrencies are not as addictive as drugs, and it is rather harder to hide a cryptomining operation than a drug factory. The power consumption alone should be able to reveal the operation.
But I completely agree that there is no political will to stop a redundant currency that impacts our planet measurably in a negative way.

There are cryptocurrencies that do not use as much power to be mined. Would they not be able to supplant BitCoin etc if there was a political will?
 
I think that cryptocurrencies are not as addictive as drugs, and it is rather harder to hide a cryptomining operation than a drug factory.
You just don't get it. No matter how dangerous drugs are, outlawing them simply doesn't work, never has worked and never will work. It is just an evil policy dreamed up by politicians who want to sink the jack boots in.

Similarly, even if there was the political will, outlawing cryptos will never work. At a minimum, there will always be places outside the US jurisdiction where miners can mine with impunity.
 
You just don't get it. No matter how dangerous drugs are, outlawing them simply doesn't work, never has worked and never will work. It is just an evil policy dreamed up by politicians who want to sink the jack boots in.
So you think that cryptocurrencies are as addictive as drugs, and that people will be attracted to invest in them no matter the cost or the risk. Interesting.
Similarly, even if there was the political will, outlawing cryptos will never work. At a minimum, there will always be places outside the US jurisdiction where miners can mine with impunity.
Who is talking about the US?
 
Outlawing crypto in US, EU and other "civilized" countries would beat the price to the ground. People would still use it, and mine it, but it would be fraction. I'd say less than 10%. Mining reward would go down, which would downscale the mining industry in the same ratio. If China joined the effort, it would be pretty much over for crypto.
But quantum computing seems more likely end to crypto.
 
So you think that cryptocurrencies are as addictive as drugs, and that people will be attracted to invest in them no matter the cost or the risk. Interesting.
You are the one who tried to make the analogy with drugs. Not me.

Who is talking about the US?
Most people here do but it doesn't matter which country or countries you are talking about. They can't enforce a ban beyond their borders.
 
Outlawing crypto in US, EU and other "civilized" countries would beat the price to the ground. People would still use it, and mine it, but it would be fraction. I'd say less than 10%.
Are you assuming that wealthy crypto holders would divest their holdings?

Mining reward would go down, which would downscale the mining industry in the same ratio.
Mining rewards (at least for bitcoin) are fixed by a formula and are independent of the amount of energy expended to add a block to the blockchain.
 
You are the one who tried to make the analogy with drugs. Not me.
This quote by you was the first to mention drugs:
Because outlawing drugs is so effective?

Cryptocurrencies like all valuables only have the value that people think they have. If you tax them heavily, or outlaw them, fewer people will want them, and the value will go down. Investors will look for other safer investments. It is completely unlike outlawing drugs, because drugs really work, and addicts will keep demanding them. There are no addicts to cryptocurrencies, only people who want to invest.

Sure, criminals will keep using cryptocurrencies for their crimes, but only as long as they can use their crypto cash to get the values in return.

If the mining industry is taxed on the energy consumption, very likely many will go out of business, which will be good for the planet, even if it causes the Bitcoin values to go up.
 
This quote by you was the first to mention drugs:
That was just to point out that calling something "illegal" won't curtail its use. It won't drive down the price either (more likely to increase it since it becomes a black market item). People who have a use for crypto (even if it is just for speculation) are going to continue using it.
 
Are you assuming that wealthy crypto holders would divest their holdings?
Sorry, I'm not familiar with the word "divest", and googling didn't really help. What do you mean ?

Mining rewards (at least for bitcoin) are fixed by a formula and are independent of the amount of energy expended to add a block to the blockchain.
Miners have to balance price for electricity with the reward. The reward is smaller if there is too many miners, as the reward is (on average over time) distributed between all the miners. And the reward is in BTC. So if the price of BTC drops to 10%, the reward will also drop to 10%, which will render most of the mines ineffective.
The reward is indeed independent of the energy, but the energy consumed per block is basically all the energy the reward can buy. It's not so simple, as the mining industry can't react too fast, especially in the up direction, the energy price itself fluctuates a lot, and miners can also speculate on the BTC price change. They might keep mining even if they are at loss, as BTC on average keeps growing. But if it didn't grow, and if the outlook was grim .. it would change quick.
Also clearly the energy consumption of BTC was lower when the market cap was lower.
 
Sorry, I'm not familiar with the word "divest", and googling didn't really help. What do you mean ?

from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/divest
1 a : to deprive or dispossess especially of property, authority, or title
2 : to take away from a person
from https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/valuation/divesting/:
Divesting is the act of a company selling off an asset. While divesting may refer to the sale of any asset, it is most commonly used in the context of selling a non-core business unit. Divesting can be seen as the direct opposite of an acquisition
I'm pretty sure that I don't need to tell you what effect wide scale divestment of crypto would do to its price. For that reason, nobody would do so voluntarily. And I doubt that the government could force wide scale divestment or compulsorily acquire cryptos without just compensation (not without a sympathetic supreme court anyway).

Miners have to balance price for electricity with the reward. The reward is smaller if there is too many miners, as the reward is (on average over time) distributed between all the miners. And the reward is in BTC. So if the price of BTC drops to 10%, the reward will also drop to 10%, which will render most of the mines ineffective.
This has been hashed out continuously over the past decade and a half. The block reward (in BTC) is independent of the energy used to mine it. If the price was lower then it would be uneconomic to expend vast sums of energy mining. But for the remaining miners, the energy cost would be lower.
 

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