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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

acbytesla said:
My knee jerk reaction is to ask for evidence. And that doesn't qualify as a proper citation.
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https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/ Go to para 2. The spreadsheet containing the data (the actual number of convicted prisoners is hyperlinked from there. These are 2019 figures; there may be newer ones but these are quite clear in demonstrating that trans-identifying males commit sex crimes at a much greater rate than do natal females or males not identifying as trans.
Of 129 trans-identifying males in prison, 76 were convicted of sex offences, including rape - 58.9%.
Of 3812 females in prison, 125 were convicted of sex offences - 3.3%
Of 78781 males in prison, 13234 were convicted of sex offences including rape - 16.8%
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acbytesla said:
My knee jerk reaction is to ask for evidence.
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Yes. It's a familiar pattern in this thread:

  1. A "skeptic" drops in with a knee-jerk demand for evidence.
  2. Either evidence provided earlier is referenced for the "skeptic", or the same evidence is provided anew.
  3. The "skeptic" blusters for a bit, then disappears from the thread when it comes time to discuss the evidence.
  4. A year later, the same "skeptic" drops in to repeat their knee-jerk demand for evidence.
 
Ziggurat said:
Deny it happened, doesn't mean it didn't.
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You're right. It doesn't. But I also can't disprove God, Big Foot of the Loch Ness monster. I'm not making a positive claim. You are.

I'm not afraid of gay or transgender people. I'm also not willing to discriminate angainst an individual because of hypotheticals or outliers of others that are similar. I think most of the transgender scare is overwrought and exaggerated fears with little actual facts supporting it.
 
acbytesla said:
You're right. It doesn't. But I also can't disprove God, Big Foot of the Loch Ness monster. I'm not making a positive claim. You are.
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Multiple examples including evidence have been posted repeatedly in this thread. The fact that people aren't in the mood to go dig them up again because you haven't been keeping up may be inconvenient to you, but I don't really care.
acbytesla said:
I'm not afraid of gay or transgender people.
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So what? You're also probably not afraid of sexual predators, because you aren't their prey. That doesn't mean that people who are vulnerable to sexual predators have no right to take precautions to minimize their vulnerability. Your callous indifference to the risks they face doesn't make you a better person.
 
Agatha said:
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/ Go to para 2. The spreadsheet containing the data (the actual number of convicted prisoners is hyperlinked from there. These are 2019 figures; there may be newer ones but these are quite clear in demonstrating that trans-identifying males commit sex crimes at a much greater rate than do natal females or males not identifying as trans.
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How many of those sexual assaults were against women in public or private facilities open to the public?

Even if MtF transgender individuals show the same degree of violent tendencies as CIS men. Which is what your cite offered. Does it justify the massive amount of hate and violence towards transgender MtFs? Does it demonstrate a need to create laws to criminalize the use of a toilet? BTW, I see nothing on Google Scholar that shows in depth studies of violence committed by MtFs in public accommodation spaces.
 
Rolfe said:
It was his friendship with Manning that caused Craig Murray to be so vehemently pro-trans in every possible way. I don't suppose this will put him off, but it does rather give the lie to his characterisation of Manning as being so kind and generous and inoffensive.
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Craig Murray is an odd one, to be fair. I used to argue with the 9/11 Truthers on his site (probably something like 80% were Truthers and they were often the moderates; there were all kinds of weirdos on his site with the most insane conspiracy theories). He eventually clarified for them that he wasn’t a Truther himself. Instead he seemed to have a lot of sympathy for various Islamist groups such as Hizb-ut-Tahrir. It seems almost comically modish for him to support both trans-rights, Islamism and Scottish independence at the same time.
 
Ziggurat said:
Multiple examples including evidence have been posted repeatedly in this thread. The fact that people aren't in the mood to go dig them up again because you haven't been keeping up may be inconvenient to you, but I don't really care.
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Nonsense, I care. What I don't care about is jumping on a bandwagon of hate.
Ziggurat said:
So what? You're also probably not afraid of sexual predators, because you aren't their prey. That doesn't mean that people who are vulnerable to sexual predators have no right to take precautions to minimize their vulnerability. Your callous indifference to the risks they face doesn't make you a better person.
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Weak sauce. I don't buy making it a criminal offense for a MtF to use a Women's restroom protects women.
 
Matthew Best said:
Please show your working for this assertion.
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"The group had no statistically significant differences from other natal males, for convictions in general or
for violent offending." Straight from the source that Agatha cited.
 
acbytesla said:
How many of those sexual assaults were against women in public or private facilities open to the public?

Even if MtF transgender individuals show the same degree of violent tendencies as CIS men. Which is what your cite offered. Does it justify the massive amount of hate and violence towards transgender MtFs? Does it demonstrate a need to create laws to criminalize the use of a toilet? BTW, I see nothing on Google Scholar that shows in depth studies of violence committed by MtFs in public accommodation spaces.
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That's not what you asked for. You challenged smartcooky's post containing the statistics of transgender-identifying males committing sex offences at a much greater rate than either women or non-transgender-identifying males, and asked for a cite (despite it having been posted in this thread several times).

And the cite doesn't show that trans-identifying men commit "the same degree of violent tendencies as [non trans-identifying] men. It shows them committing sexual offences at a far greater rate. Why are you ignoring the actual numbers and changing the subject to violent rather than sexual crime, or limiting it to crimes in public bathrooms? That isn't what smartcooky claimed.

There have been several crimes committed by trans-identifying males against women and girls in bathrooms - for example those crimes committed by "Katie" Dolatowski. But all those have been repeated several times on this thread

What you said to smartcooky was:
acbytesla said:
Where did you come up with those stats? My bet is some transphobic person made them up and they have been cited and repeated tons of times. But that doesn't mean they are true. 95 percent of the crap being repeated about transpeople are made up. But in all fairness, the vast majority of info about anything that is found on the internet is repeated nonsense.
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You lost your bet. The stats came from a FOI request to the UK government, which no doubt you noticed when you went to the link I gave.
 
angrysoba said:
Craig Murray is an odd one, to be fair. I used to argue with the 9/11 Truthers on his site (probably something like 80% were Truthers and they were often the moderates; there were all kinds of weirdos on his site with the most insane conspiracy theories). He eventually clarified for them that he wasn’t a Truther himself. Instead he seemed to have a lot of sympathy for various Islamist groups such as Hizb-ut-Tahrir. It seems almost comically modish for him to support both trans-rights, Islamism and Scottish independence at the same time.
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If he's not a Truther that's probably the first conspiracy theory he ever saw that he didn't like.
 
ahhell said:
It happened at least once.


A person with a penis was hanging out naked in a women's spa.
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Here, too.

After banning trans women, Washington spa fights antidiscrimination laws at Ninth Circuit

Customers of the spa — that is, nude women aged 13 or older — are not “publicly available goods or services that males are entitled to view when females do not consent,” he told the justices. Therefore, he argued, the state’s public accommodation rules shouldn’t apply.

In late 2020, the state's Human Rights Commission issued a complaint of discrimination after a transgender woman who had not undergone sex-reassignment surgery was denied service at the spa. The spa argued that its nudity requirement was consistent with state laws and codes.

The spa also added new language to its entrance policy, stating on its website that “biological women are welcome.”
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angrysoba said:
His fans were massively let down. They had assumed, and I don’t blame them…
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I've had the same thing in relation to my work on Lockerbie. I'll give a carefully-prepared 40-minute presentation of the evidence that the bomb wasn't introduced at Malta, and then ask for questions. A dollar to a dud dime and someone will start banging on about their belief that Wille MacRae was murdered by the Special Branch (and David Kelly and Hilda somebody as well), and get quite aggressive when I inform them that I'm entirely certain that Willie MacRae committed suicide on the down-swing of a bipolar episode. 9/11 also features sometimes.

CTers are absolutely certain that every CT is true, and get pretty miffed if a proponent of one thing that they think is a CT doesn't subscribe to them all. To be fair to Craig Murray, he's right some of the time. He's absolutely right about the plot to frame Alex Salmond for rape, for example.

Sorry this is off topic, I'll stop now.
 
I suspect that there are major flaws in the census count and violence among transgender individuals. Thatvsaid, it might be accurate. Whether it is my bias or theirs is still unknown. But it is staggering to me just how much flawed and even doctored information is published by individuals with personal agendas.
 
Why do you suspect flaws in the census (or the counts of convicted prisoners) in England & Wales? It's a hard count of every person, not numbers extrapolated from sampling. And the statistics being shown (as already noted) are about sex offences, not violent offences.
 
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acbytesla said:
Tell me when that happens.
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When what happens? When a woman doesn't bother to raise the alarm when a male enters what was previously a female safe space and behaves inappropriately because she knows nothing will be done, and she's just expected to put up with it? When a woman stops going to the gym because there are no longer any such things as female safe spaces?

Why don't you tell me why the feelings of a trans identifying male when expected to use male or unisex facilities are so much more important than the feelings of a female rape victim when expected to share the women's showers with a male she neither knows nor trusts?
 
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