Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

Well, there are degrees of rape culture and I'm not passing judgment over any particular one for a change. Just saying that watching a movie of a man and a woman, or indeed any combination of men and/or women, having consensual sex is a part of that culture is a complete non-sequitur.
 
First, to Cosmic Yak, “Mindless Wankzombies” is the best band-name ever.

I have a son. I also helped raise two stepsons.
I know my son started watching internet porn in his early teens. I happen to think that’s pretty normal; adolescents become very curious and the internet is right there. When I was a kid it was magazines, but we could find them, usually from older siblings’s stashes, without much trouble.
I noticed that my computer, which my son also used, suddenly began offering porn options as soon as I hit a couple letters in the address bar.
I sat him down and explained that porn doesn’t reflect the behavior of most intimate relationships.

I then told him that his mom and I knew when he erased his browsing history.

His eyes got so wide. I had explained he wasn’t in trouble before the conversation started, but that seemed to hit.
 
Duly noted, but laws don't work that way. There's a reason for "legalese". They go out of their way to define what applies and what doesn't. Like, at least per Texas law) if you beat up your GF, they can issue a protected citizen order for her, but if you beat up the lady next door, they can't. But if you stalk her, at least as of this year, they can. Go figure.

That happens when legislation is carefully drafted and/or there's been plenty of time for case precedents to be set. Poem's proposed "not taking proper measures to prevent a child being exposed to sexual activities by others" is unacceptable as language for anyone to be prosecuting or defending anyone's property or freedom in court.

How, for instance, would that not apply to ordinary visual aids being used in a sex education course? In this day and age even basic math concepts are taught with the aid of illustrations, video, and interactive graphics. Requiring sex education to be taught by text alone would be a hair's breadth from banning sex education course materials altogether. Perhaps that's also a result Poem desires, but that should be explicitly stated rather than snuck in under the cover of some excessively broad law.

The same can and already DOES apply for your example of kissing vs other sexual activities. We ALREADY make that kind of distinctions. Like, you don't get prosecuted if you kiss your GF in a park, but if you flip her skirt, pull her panties to the side, and... mmm.... err... wait, what was I talking about?... oh, right... you may well end up on a list.

Or, depending on the time period and place, if you and your GF are unmarried. Or if it's on a Sunday. Or if you're of different races. Or if you're of a lower class and her father disapproves. Or if you're also female. Or...

Yeah, we make such distinctions, and historically we suck at it, which wins some people a power trip while others get their lives destroyed.

We already KNOW how to make legal distinctions about that, without having to google random sites.

The distinction I coped from a "random" site is typical of thousands of such sites, because it arises in the context of consent and the message that consent is required for "all sexual activity." Kissing without consent IS and should be considered sexual activity; specifically, sexual assault. (At least until some moody eleven year old presses charges against her family for "go on, don't be a sour puss, give your grandma a kiss" after a family visit. Such delineations are never perfect.) Being "sexual activity" in the context of consent issues doesn't make it "sexual activity" in other contexts, as you point out. But Poem's wording doesn't specify a context, and his word games over the phrase "rape culture" strongly suggests that he's willing to elide such contexts freely for his own rhetorical purposes. So, the "legal distinctions" you speak of would end up decided by some prosecutor and some judge in some as yet unknown venue. Is that how you want the question of whether you should be imprisoned for letting a child see a wedding photo album to be decided?

We also never had problems with making something illegal, just because there's a supply of it. E.g. there's a massive supply of fentanyl, but it's still illegal :p

A Fentanyl pill can only be consumed once. Ending all production of Fentanyl would reduce the supply of, and eventually end all consumption of, Fentanyl, probably in fairly short order. None of that is true for porn. Ending all production of porn would not affect the supply of porn at al, so it does nothing to achieve the supposed goal of protecting children from being exposed to porn that's already supposedly "laying around" everywhere. That's a strong indication Poem is being disingenuous about his desired goal, which (also based on other things he's said) is actually the de facto banning of all porn for everyone, by making it extremely risky to possess or transmit, should some minor somewhere under any circumstances whatsoever manage to see it.
 
I can think of a couple highly effective steps an attentive parent could take to properly lock down access on devices they control. There's plenty of community-maintained whitelists that can be applied to the PC or router. There's plenty of instructions online for how to do this.
The UK's Children's Commissioner, Dame Rachel said parents "can't stop the tide of this stuff" without government intervention and backed the law, before adding "frankly [tech firms] are multi-billion companies, they should be having a moral compass and doing this now".

Perhaps you think she is wrong? If so, in what way?
Yes, I think she's wrong, in pretty much every word. Parents can "stop the tide". Locking down their children's computers is indeed possible. The business about tech companies and moral compasses is just absurd blame-shifting.
 
That happens when legislation is carefully drafted and/or there's been plenty of time for case precedents to be set. Poem's proposed "not taking proper measures to prevent a child being exposed to sexual activities by others" is unacceptable as language for anyone to be prosecuting or defending anyone's property or freedom in court.

Yes, well, Poem's posts have a lot of problems, starting with the premises. I was just pointing out that, yes, a law is drafted and debated first, they don't just copy a one-liner from some random person on the internet :p

I mean even Florida's much maligned "don't say gay" law, was a few pages long, it wasn't just saying "don't say gay." :p And mind you, that was a badly drafted law that was unclear AF about where the limits start and end. But it still managed to include a whole bunch of text. (And it got challenged and clarified.)

Kissing without consent IS and should be considered sexual activity; specifically, sexual assault.

The keyword there is "assault", though, which depending on country and state, may or may not be equivalent to "battery" (or they may split the difference), which may or may not literally include any intentional physical contact that the other person doesn't want. (I'm not kidding and it's not hyperbole.) Even a pat on the back can technically be assault. (Good luck getting a conviction, tho.) Anyway, it's not as much forbidding the sexual part, it's forbidding the assault part.
 
1. That's the normal definition of "rape culture", though. Words mean stuff.
Citation?
2. That's not what that message says. It says you trivialize rape culture by extending it to mean other stuff that is not rape.
This goes back to what rape culture means. The definition I cited (by googling the term) has this to say:

Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages.
Oxford Languages is the world’s leading dictionary publisher, with over 150 years of experience creating and delivering authoritative dictionaries globally in more than 50 languages.
Oxford’s English dictionaries are widely regarded as the world’s most authoritative sources on current English.

That is not the issue. Even accepting all forms of sexual assault as counting for rape culture, some guy or gal watching an adult movie is not sexual assault, and accepting it doesn't mean accepting rape.
Most porn is freely and easily available and, as already stated, showing porn to a minor is sexual abuse. Pornhub knows that millions of children will see their content.

You check before watching that no sexual violence is occurring?
Just like watching the Hitman movie doesn't mean murder culture, or watching Batman movies doesn't mean vigilantism culture. And actually even less so in the case of porn, since the vast majority is depicted as consensual. It may not be what you'd consent to, but the characters involved do.
Pornhub was forced to remove 80% of it's content following Nicholas Kristof's piece 'The Children of Pornhub' (and also work by Laila Mickelwait). Pornhub is currently facing multiple lawsuits and class actions. I've detailed the undercover work by Sound Investigations.

Are you aware of this?
 
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I can think of a couple highly effective steps an attentive parent could take to properly lock down access on devices they control. There's plenty of community-maintained whitelists that can be applied to the PC or router. There's plenty of instructions online for how to do this.
Which website?
Yes, I think she's wrong, in pretty much every word. Parents can "stop the tide". Locking down their children's computers is indeed possible.
...but no citation.
The business about tech companies and moral compasses is just absurd blame-shifting.
Undemonstrated.
 
Exactly, Poem's use of the phrase "rape culture" is precisely the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I have been objecting to. The low rate of rape convictions in the UK indicates problems within the judiciary. It does not in any way imply that acceptance or condoning of this crime is a significant part of British culture- and it is frankly insulting to say it is.
The word 'effectively' covers this. The fact is that rapists know they have an extremely good chance of getting away with their crimes.
 
That's not what you said before. You said porn was left lying around for 9-year-olds to see it. That is ridiculous hyperbole.
This is what I actually said #1348:

"...society effectively leaving porn strewn just about everywhere for young people to stumble upon..."

13 is the most common age of porn exposure; 9 is less so at 10%
No-one is disputing that the current age safeguards we have are inadequate. Where we disagree- you versus the rest of the world, basically- is that you want to ban all porn, whereas most of the rest of us want tougher safeguarding.
Responsible people asked to act immediately because children are suffering 'severe harm' through porn exposure would do so. Society has put porn first.
You need to look into what exactly counts as child abuse in these cases. Whatever 'double anal' is- I heard the term first from you, and am not inclined to look it up- it appears that this practice, and those like it, do not make up a high percentage of these cases. A great number of them are teenagers sending nude pictures of themselves to each other.
And who is responsible for normalizing such sexting?
Sure. There's a huge shadowy conspiracy to turn us all into mindless wankzombies. :xrolleyes
I'm not sure you have actually made a point here.
Just read your post here again. It is essentially all hyperbole. Just admit you're a prude, that you find the idea of sex icky, and that you want to impose your puritanical morality on everyone else, and we can move on.
No and no. Your morality will likely be seen by some as puritanical (as I have already alluded to), so what is your point?
I saw no need. You just reinforced my point. Would you like me to strut and crow about it? It's not really my style, but I'll give it a shot if you really want me to.
Please do.
 
OK. Taking Pornhub as the one specific example you have provided, can you explain how you think this works? Is Pornhub sending out invites to minors, asking them to come and see the porn show? Or are they renting cinemas, and organising the porn shows there? Perhaps roaming vans, so they can ask children to come inside the vans to see the porn there? Another means I've overlooked?
Be specific, please: how, exactly, is Pornhub showing porn to minors?
Minor googles (begins with 'F' and ends in 'K', 4 letters) and parents haven't ensured his/her phone is safe or the kid uses a VPN / friend's phone etc....or just goes on social media.

Nobody can say that the head of Aylo has taken 'proper measures to prevent a child being exposed to sexual activities by others.'
 
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We've normalized kids watching porn to such an extent that they think nothing of sending and requesting naked pictures of each other. Seriously, is anyone here denying responsibility?
 
Minor googles (begins with 'F' and ends in 'K', 4 letters) and parents haven't ensured his/her phone is safe or the kid uses a VPN / friend's phone etc....or just goes on social media.
That's not an answer to my question. I asked you how Pornhub was showing porn to children. I didn't ask you about Google or parents.
Nobody can say that the head of Aylo has taken 'proper measures to prevent a child being exposed to sexual activities by others.'
Now you're moving the goalposts again. 'Not taking proper measures to prevent' children accessing porn is not the same as actively 'showing porn' to children, which is what you claimed was happening.
So, let me ask again: how is Pornhub showing porn to children?
 
This is what I actually said #1348:

"...society effectively leaving porn strewn just about everywhere for young people to stumble upon..."

13 is the most common age of porn exposure; 9 is less so at 10%

So, when teens start going through puberty, they start to seek out sexual material. Are you surprised by this?
Responsible people asked to act immediately because children are suffering 'severe harm' through porn exposure would do so. Society has put porn first.

Weasel words again. What you want, and what others here want, are not the same thing. Your proposed remedy is not one supported by -AFAIK- anyone else here. That doesn't mean that those who disagree with you are somehow not responsible or unconcerned about possible harms to children.
And who is responsible for normalizing such sexting?

I have no idea. I would guess, teens themselves. Why do you ask?
I'm not sure you have actually made a point here.

I have it's just that you don't understand it.
No and no. Your morality will likely be seen by some as puritanical (as I have already alluded to), so what is your point?

You are demonsrtably intent on imposing your own morality on others.
My morality will be seen as puritanical? *Snort*. Do you even know what the word means?
Please do.
Weird.
You used data that disproved your own point. This makes you wrong, and me right. That you want me to reinforce this point is strange, but, hey, if that's what you want, OK.
You were wrong. I was right. That makes me happy, and it makes you look foolish. I will remind you of this moment frequently in the future.

There. Done. Happy now?
 
We've normalized kids watching porn to such an extent that they think nothing of sending and requesting naked pictures of each other. Seriously, is anyone here denying responsibility?
What makes you think that the availability of porn is behind that behaviour?
 
We've normalized kids watching porn to such an extent that they think nothing of sending and requesting naked pictures of each other. Seriously, is anyone here denying responsibility?

Of course, kids who grow up carrying the equivalent of a photographic studio and a telecommunications station in their pockets would never think of taking and sharing photographs of themselves, unless they saw some porn.

This isn't 2 + 2 = 5 level of absurdity, it's more like 2 + 2 = potato.
 
We've normalized kids watching porn to such an extent that they think nothing of sending and requesting naked pictures of each other. Seriously, is anyone here denying responsibility?
I'm still not clear on what you want to actually do about the problem you see.
 
That's not an answer to my question. I asked you how Pornhub was showing porn to children. I didn't ask you about Google or parents.

Now you're moving the goalposts again. 'Not taking proper measures to prevent' children accessing porn is not the same as actively 'showing porn' to children, which is what you claimed was happening.
So, let me ask again: how is Pornhub showing porn to children?

Artists have 'exhibitions' or 'art shows'; they show their work to whomever - anyone who is interested in their work or anyone interested in art in general. In the same way, Pornhub exhibits it's content and we know that children are (naturally) curious about sex.

Are you an advocate of porn? Are you involved in the industry?
 
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However, the words 'rape culture' do not, which was my point.
If society cared enough about the current extent of sexual assault and abuse then we would be doing something about it. We wouldn't be tolerating the likes of Pornhub which, according to Laila Mickelwait, has the same 'VPs and executives' as they had in 2020 (after which they were forced to remove 80% of their content). We wouldn't tolerate children being exposed to easy access porn. We wouldn't be blurring the lines between the illegal and legal - viz.: The Free Speech Coalition overturning (2002) the US proscription of the portrayal of minors in porn (in Canada it is illegal).
 
So, when teens start going through puberty, they start to seek out sexual material. Are you surprised by this?
No.
Weasel words again. What you want, and what others here want, are not the same thing. Your proposed remedy is not one supported by -AFAIK- anyone else here. That doesn't mean that those who disagree with you are somehow not responsible or unconcerned about possible harms to children.
It is not 'weasel words' to state as fact that such folk are tolerating the 'severe harm' that child experts and children's charities have spoken of. Access to porn is de facto the supreme concern; it is naive to think otherwise.

How about making sure FIRST that children won't be exposed and then consider making porn available to those that want it afterwards?
I have no idea. I would guess, teens themselves. Why do you ask?
Society normalizes anything goes porn and has 'no idea' why children are doing the same?
You are demonsrtably intent on imposing your own morality on others.
My morality will be seen as puritanical? *Snort*. Do you even know what the word means?
Why don't you tell us what is permissible then? Do you support moves to lower the age of consent?
Weird.
You used data that disproved your own point. This makes you wrong, and me right. That you want me to reinforce this point is strange, but, hey, if that's what you want, OK.
You were wrong. I was right. That makes me happy, and it makes you look foolish. I will remind you of this moment frequently in the future.

There. Done. Happy now?
Your evidence that childhood exposure to porn is not widespread is what? You appear to be tolerating children as young as 9 seeing porn - one in ten of them; over a 1/4 of 11 year olds and half of 13 year olds.

That report states that much of the material being consumed by children and young people features violence.

They are watching porn that society has fuelled the production of.
 

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