Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Poem]

As I said, the one where you called my using an analogy to illustrate the importance of distinguishing cause and effect "the essence of rape culture."

I assume you mean this?

I never new eyeglasses were responsible for causing the equivalent of the 'severe harm' to children and society in general that porn does.

Your trivialization of this issue is in line with the very meaning of rape culture.

Please explain how my post in any way trivializes actual rape? You said:

Your trivialization of rape, actual rape being actually condoned by actual cultures, is far more egregious than anything anyone in this thread has said about porn.

I would say your issue is with the definition of 'rape culture'. - which your posts suggest you do not accept...and would be why you think it implies I trivialize actual rape by accepting the definition (of rape culture).

I accept that actual rape is at the extreme end of what we might describe as a sexual assault continuum that covers least to most egregious.

 

[Poem]

50 Shades is porn. It's just porn for women, not porn for men.

Okay.

 

[Poem]

By the same kind of argument, you proposed making the following illegal:



And here is a quote from the National Center for Youth Mental Health:



Clearly, you are currently advocating allowing a child to see kissing or depictions of kissing a criminal act.

I was quoting from UK law; you have quoted from the NCYMH. The 'sexual activity' that CEOP would be referring to would be defined under UK law. Nobody is going to be criminalized for kissing in front of a child...but it's not something that responsible adults would excessively do anyway.

Instead of putting up hurdles, why not deal with what I actually said about society effectively leaving porn strewn just about everywhere for young people to stumble upon? Do you acknowledge that that is wrong? Seriously wrong? I quoted from the Guardian but you didn't acknowledge it.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

There is a continuing denial among posters regarding what is actually occurring with children's easy access to porn - so I'll repost this from CEOP (Child Online and Exploitation Protection Centre - part of the UK's Nation Crime Agency):

Child sexual abuse is when a child, by which we mean anyone under the age of 18, is pressured, forced or tricked in to any sexual activity with an adult or another child. This isn’t only physical contact and can happen both in person and online.

All sexual contact between an adult and a child, online or in person, is sexual abuse; this includes:​

not taking proper measures to prevent a child being exposed to sexual activities by others
showing a child images of sexual activity, including photographs, videos or via webcams

Which porn websites are showing porn to children?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

I was quoting from UK law; you have quoted from the NCYMH. The 'sexual activity' that CEOP would be referring to would be defined under UK law. Nobody is going to be criminalized for kissing in front of a child...but it's not something that responsible adults would excessively do anyway.

Instead of putting up hurdles, why not deal with what I actually said about
society effectively leaving porn strewn just about everywhere for young people to stumble upon? Do you acknowledge that that is wrong? Seriously wrong? I quoted from the Guardian but you didn't acknowledge it.

This is ridiculous hyperbole. Indeed, your entire argument on this thread is based on ridiculous hyperbole.

 

[Poem]

This is ridiculous hyperbole. Indeed, your entire argument on this thread is based on ridiculous hyperbole.

Since you cannot disagree that the internet is awash with porn and that most of it is available without age verification, then I am confused that you deem it 'hyperbole'. Children often access porn via social media and the average age of exposure is (as already discussed) 13 (in the UK at least). Parents are either failing or are unable to prevent exposure. Children use VPNs to get around parental controls and will probably have access to a friend's phone that hasn't been made safe.

Why are UK children the responsible for over half of cases of child sexual abuse? Why wouldn't they act out what they see as normal?

When something as addictive as porn is literally taking over the minds of vast swathes of society (over 100 million visits per day to Pornhub alone), then it's no surprise that proper measures haven't been taken.

No hyperbole whatsoever.

Why didn't you comment on #1301?

 

[Poem]

Pornhub (SFW) statistics:

• Pornhub is one of the most prolific adult websites, averaging over 100 billion video views a year. That's about 12.5 porn videos per person on earth.
• Over 100 million daily visits to Pornhub, and over 36 billion visits per year.
• Over 125 million daily visits to the Pornhub Network of sites including YouPorn and Redtube.
• 20 million registered Pornhub users.
• Average streaming bandwidth of 120 Gigabytes per second.

 

[Poem]

Which porn websites are showing porn to children?

Pornhub et al.

 

[zooterkin]

"Young people tell me their exposure to pornography is widespread and normalised – with the average age at which children first seeing pornography being 13 years old," Dame Rachel de Souza, the current Children’s Commissioner, tells the BBC.

And has that changed significantly over the years? 11 seemed to be the 'normal' age to first encounter it when I was young, when you started at senior school, though in those days it was magazines. Undoubtedly some, particularly those with older siblings, would see it earlier. What has changed is the nature of the porn children might be exposed to.

 

[Poem]

And has that changed significantly over the years? 11 seemed to be the 'normal' age to first encounter it when I was young, when you started at senior school, though in those days it was magazines. Undoubtedly some, particularly those with older siblings, would see it earlier. What has changed is the nature of the porn children might be exposed to.

I'm not sure. The UK's Children's Commissioner has 10% of nine year olds being first exposed to porn.

Indeed, they are being exposed to graphic videos - with ever more extreme content.

 

[Poem]

BBC article:
"Of the 18-21-year-olds, 79% had seen pornography involving sexual violence as children."

 

[Lithrael]

50 Shades is porn. It's just porn for women, not porn for men.

It's porn for women who aren't turned off by bdsm stories featuring spectacularly poor aftercare XD
My suspension of disbelief, it was not sufficiently engaged, lol

 

[Lithrael]

I'm not sure. The UK's Children's Commissioner has 10% of nine year olds being first exposed to porn.

Now here's a weird example. I was looking around for some Early Internet stuff and loaded a few very old, abandoned, completely innocuous Geocities pages (for bands, tv shows, etc) and they now have porn banner ads on them, full frontal, etc. That certainly counts, to me, as failing to keep porn behind a gate.

Fully pornographic banner ads on non-gated or broadly attractive pages (for other stuff like downloading songs) are a problem I'd love to see cracked down on.

Porn on Pornhub is not exposing anyone who doesn't go to Pornhub.

 

[Poem]

Now here's a weird example. I was looking around for some Early Internet stuff and loaded a few very old, abandoned, completely innocuous Geocities pages (for bands, tv shows, etc) and they now have porn banner ads on them, full frontal, etc. That certainly counts, to me, as failing to keep porn behind a gate.

Fully pornographic banner ads on non-gated or broadly attractive pages (for other stuff like downloading songs) are a problem I'd love to see cracked down on.

Porn on Pornhub is not exposing anyone who doesn't go to Pornhub.

I'm not understanding the distinction L.

BBC article:
Joanne Schneider's son stumbled across a pornography website, aged eight, after typing swear words he had heard at school into a search engine.

"We'd put all the normal safety features in place and had removed apps such as YouTube but didn't for one second think that my son could find himself on adult-entertainment sites within a few seconds," Ms Schneider, from London, said.

 

[theprestige]

I'm not understanding the distinction L.

BBC article:
Joanne Schneider's son stumbled across a pornography website, aged eight, after typing swear words he had heard at school into a search engine.

"We'd put all the normal safety features in place and had removed apps such as YouTube but didn't for one second think that my son could find himself on adult-entertainment sites within a few seconds," Ms Schneider, from London, said.

I think perhaps her concept of "normal safety features" is incomplete.

 

[Poem]

I think perhaps her concept of "normal safety features" is incomplete.

How so?

The UK's Children's Commissioner, Dame Rachel said parents "can't stop the tide of this stuff" without government intervention and backed the law, before adding "frankly [tech firms] are multi-billion companies, they should be having a moral compass and doing this now".

Perhaps you think she is wrong? If so, in what way?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Pornhub et al.

OK. Taking Pornhub as the one specific example you have provided, can you explain how you think this works? Is Pornhub sending out invites to minors, asking them to come and see the porn show? Or are they renting cinemas, and organising the porn shows there? Perhaps roaming vans, so they can ask children to come inside the vans to see the porn there? Another means I've overlooked?
Be specific, please: how, exactly, is Pornhub showing porn to minors?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Since you cannot disagree that the internet is awash with porn and that most of it is available without age verification,

That's not what you said before. You said porn was left lying around for 9-year-olds to see it. That is ridiculous hyperbole.

then I am confused that you deem it 'hyperbole'. Children often access porn via social media and the average age of exposure is (as already discussed) 13 (in the UK at least). Parents are either failing or are unable to prevent exposure. Children use VPNs to get around parental controls and will probably have access to a friend's phone that hasn't been made safe.

No-one is disputing that the current age safeguards we have are inadequate. Where we disagree- you versus the rest of the world, basically- is that you want to ban all porn, whereas most of the rest of us want tougher safeguarding.

Why are UK children the responsible for over half of cases of child sexual abuse? Why wouldn't they act out what they see as normal?

You need to look into what exactly counts as child abuse in these cases. Whatever 'double anal' is- I heard the term first from you, and am not inclined to look it up- it appears that this practice, and those like it, do not make up a high percentage of these cases. A great number of them are teenagers sending nude pictures of themselves to each other.

Teenagers accused in half of child abuse cases

Young people are unaware taking and sharing nude pictures of someone under 18 is a crime, police say.

www.bbc.com

When something as addictive as porn is literally taking over the minds of vast swathes of society (over 100 million visits per day to Pornhub alone), then it's no surprise that proper measures haven't been taken.

Sure. There's a huge shadowy conspiracy to turn us all into mindless wankzombies.

No hyperbole whatsoever.

Just read your post here again. It is essentially all hyperbole. Just admit you're a prude, that you find the idea of sex icky, and that you want to impose your puritanical morality on everyone else, and we can move on.

Why didn't you comment on #1301?

I saw no need. You just reinforced my point. Would you like me to strut and crow about it? It's not really my style, but I'll give it a shot if you really want me to.

 

[HansMustermann]

I would say your issue is with the definition of 'rape culture'. - which your posts suggest you do not accept...and would be why you think it implies I trivialize actual rape by accepting the definition (of rape culture).

1. That's the normal definition of "rape culture", though. Words mean stuff.

2. That's not what that message says. It says you trivialize rape culture by extending it to mean other stuff that is not rape.

I accept that actual rape is at the extreme end of what we might describe as a sexual assault continuum that covers least to most egregious.

That is not the issue. Even accepting all forms of sexual assault as counting for rape culture, some guy or gal watching an adult movie is not sexual assault, and accepting it doesn't mean accepting rape.

Just like watching the Hitman movie doesn't mean murder culture, or watching Batman movies doesn't mean vigilantism culture. And actually even less so in the case of porn, since the vast majority is depicted as consensual. It may not be what you'd consent to, but the characters involved do.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

1. That's the normal definition of "rape culture", though. Words mean stuff.

2. That's not what that message says. It says you trivialize rape culture by extending it to mean other stuff that is not rape.

Exactly, Poem's use of the phrase "rape culture" is precisely the kind of ridiculous hyperbole I have been objecting to. The low rate of rape convictions in the UK indicates problems within the judiciary. It does not in any way imply that acceptance or condoning of this crime is a significant part of British culture- and it is frankly insulting to say it is.