Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Rolfe]

This article from today was particularly interesting to me for the information that the "woman" who sparked the Gamergate controversy was actually a six feet five man in a dress.

There can be no compromise in the trans debate

Gender ideologues are now desperate to present themselves as reasonable and moderate. Don’t be fooled.

www.spiked-online.com

 

[d4m10n]

There's no doubt that Stonewall have been pushing this declaration of pronouns for all it's worth.

Right, but activist groups have been open about their stated goals respecting pronoun declarations, that is, to normalize the idea that we should use pronouns based on an individual's preferences rather than their present day appearance or condition at birth.

It is, as you say, usually obvious when a male is trying to pass as a woman or a female is trying to pass as a man.

I don't claim to know that; patients who got on the endocrine pathway early are increasingly common (alas) and much more difficult to spot.

It is profoundly politically incorrect unwoke to determine passing rates empirically, so we're bound to be left with guesswork and our intuitions will be muddled by the fact that anyone who passes effectively will go unnoticed unless they deliberately disclose their personal history.

 

[Rolfe]

This is one of the BBCs 100 Women of the Year.



They're just trolling us now.

 

[d4m10n]

It is, as you say, usually obvious when a male is trying to pass as a woman or a female is trying to pass as a man.

To be clear, I meant trying but failing as opposed to trying and succeeding; those who succeed are assigned pronouns automatically and even subconsciously.

 

[Rolfe]

These are a very rare breed in real life. But of course pronouns are assigned automatically. That's the entire point. We subconsciously choose the pronoun that's appropriate, and it's our choice that cannot be compelled by someone else.

It's possible to make a mistake, usually with children or animals (professional memories of checking the sex of the next patient on its notes to avoid offending the owner by "misgendering" during the consultation), and we can correct ourselves when these are discovered. But forcing oneself to use blatantly wrong pronouns hurts the brain.

 

[d4m10n]

These are a very rare breed in real life.

I don't know how anyone could claim to know this; the people who are easy to detect are the ones who obviously don't pass.

Late in life MtFs are usually easy to clock (that is, the ones I've met) but adolescent to mid-20s FtMs are nearly impossible to clock (again, just the ones I've known) and the overall situation has been tipping towards more and more of the latter group as all the 13-y.o.'s have joined TikTok & etc.

We subconsciously choose the pronoun that's appropriate, and it's our choice that cannot be compelled by someone else.

Of course it can be compelled, that's part of how Forstater lost her job.

 

[Ziggurat]

"Trans folk who pass for their chosen sex." Bwahahahaha. It is, as you say, usually obvious when a male is trying to pass as a woman or
a female is trying to pass as a man

I'm going to have to disagree on this part. Women have a much easier time passing as a man than the reverse, and can often do so successfully. Even without hormone treatment or surgery, it can be done. Add in hormone treatment, and the results can be quite convincing. You see someone with facial hair and male pattern baldness, you're going to assume male most of the time.

But yeah, those people don't need to declare their pronouns.

 

[smartcooky]

The only people I have personally encountered who declare their pronouns are

1. Transgender self-indentified men trying to pass as women, and failing (and that is most of them)
2. People who are ideologically aligned with TRA bull-****.
3. Those who work for ideologically captured businesses (required to declare their pronouns in correspondence under threat of disciplinary action).

If someone asks me my pronouns, in the past I would feign ignorance, and if they asked me what I want to be called or referred to as, I would say my name.

However, after reading something in an earlier post by Rolfe, I have changed my response to "I don't indulge in pronoun performance-art". That is now my email signature line.

 

[theprestige]

However, after reading something in an earlier post by Rolfe, I have changed my response to "I don't indulge in pronoun performance-art". That is now my email signature line.

Try "whatever makes the most sense for you" and watch their heads explode.

 

[d4m10n]

2. People who are ideologically aligned with TRA bull-****.

This category subsumes nearly everyone I see in progressive or even just left-of-center activist circles (e.g. election watch parties with nametags, Woman's March, March for Science, atheist conferences, etc.).

 

[Brainster]

My preferred pronouns are I, me and my. When the boss wants to know who left the break room a mess, my co-workers are forced to say, "I did it."

 

[d4m10n]

Mark your calendars for tomorrow if you are interested in hearing the United States v. Skrmetti^WP arguments live.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?540173-1/supreme-ct-hears-case-medical-treatments-transgender-minors

 

[Emily's Cat]

All my life I've had a bit of an invincibility complex about sexual assault. Yes it has happened to me, but I didn't expect it and I wasn't trying to avoid it. (Once was in a cinema when the dirty old man trying to put his hand up my school skirt stopped when I firmly tucked said skirt around my knees, and once was by a doctor in hospital who performed an unneccessary breast examination without asking permission. Neither time was I physically injured, just embarrassed.) I don't actually go around taking precautions in case some stranger jumps me. Maybe I should, but there you go. It's not something that even crosses my mind.

I do not want any males in my toilets, bathrooms, showers, changing rooms, dormitories or tents. It has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with modesty, dignity, and comfort.

There's no motivation to place a strict limit on how much you'll drink at a random party like having a complete stranger try to anally rape you while you're lying on a friends bed after having had a few too many. Luckily, it wasn't quite as many too many has they thought it was.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I know this is sort of pointless to argue about (inasmuch as we'll never really know) but the motive cannot logically be to allow transwomen into "woman only spaces" if the sticker-maker sincerely believes TWAW, since the shibboleth necessarily implies that the act of mixing cis and trans women together results in a space solely composed of women, that is, a woman-only space. This is why I've leapt to the conclusion that the sticker must be for and about NBs & GQs.

You've applied logic to a problem that has arisen from rank irrationality.

Shame on you expecting things like this to have valid reasoning behind them!

 

[Emily's Cat]

For real though - and I know it's annoying as I've asked this before over the years - but why aren't women already allowed to have other women ejected from such spaces for having a sketchy vibe anyways? Why is it apparantly "sorry maam, we can't eject this weirdly leering woman from the ladies' room, she belongs in here, our hands are tied"

Like if someone reports there's a woman in there with a knife waving it at everybody, we don't go 'sheesh what a busybody, mind your own business' so why is 'don't question their gender' treated like a 'get away with everything' card? Did we always need to normalise ejecting women from restrooms for being too sketchy? Can we start now?

Oh FFS.

"Sometime a female will behave poorly with other females in a female-only space... therefore any male who wants to use female-only spaces should be entitled to by right"

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm not sure what the point is in posting pictures of rapists and people who have committed other sexual offences who also happen to be/claim to be transsexuals.

The point is that over and over and over again, females get told that transgender identified males are no threat at all to any females, that it's all needless fear based in nothing but propaganda, and that stuff like that never ever happens.

But it DOES happen, over and over again. And at the end of the day, you can say "oh, well that particular sexual predator wasn't really trans, they were just claiming to be trans" but it doesn't fix the problem. And the problem is that by extending an entitlement to males to use female spaces on the basis of what they claim their internal subjective feelings are, you have opened the door to any and every sex pest that wants to exploit the gaping loophole that is visible from the orbit of Neptune.

 

[Emily's Cat]

To be consistent.

Women should not be barred from social clubs because they eliminate the sense of comfort and safety men feel in those spaces.

Non-white people should not be barred from using spaces because they eliminate the sense of comfort and safety white people feel in those spaces.

One ethnic group should not be cleansed from a region because they eliminate the sense of comfort and safety another ethnic group feels in that region.

All of your analogies rest upon the premise that there is a powerful group that engages in discrimination against a fairly powerless group of people in a way you don't approve of.

If we extend this to the current topic of males accessing female single-sex spaces, then it would imply that you think males are historically powerless and females have a long history of discriminating against males.

I'm against self-ID of men insisting they are women and vice versa. We have a perfectly good word to describe a person whose gender does not match their biological sex: transsexual.

Okay, what exactly does this mean to you? Can you elaborate? What constitutes a transsexual person in your eyes, and how do we tell the difference between them and someone who isn't a transsexual but simply makes mouth-noises claiming to be transsexual?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Because a lot more men like to act threatening towards goofy looking guys in makeup than like to act threatening towards women.

I call bullpoop on a popsicle stick. If this were true, the stats for sexual offenses and male violence against females would be massively lower than they are. And we wouldn't have millions of females across the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ globe getting revenge raped because some unrelated male saw their hair.

And it's my honest guess that that sticker was put there by a woman thinking about intersectionality rather than anyone thinking of it as a dig against those who distrust trans people. I don't think it's extremist or stupid to believe that's a decent guess. You guys could be right, too, but we are all only guessing.

I think it's more like your honest *wish* than anything else.

And I don't actually give a ◊◊◊◊ who put it there, or what you or anyone else thinks they might have been thinking of at the time. The message that is conveyed is inarguably that females should not be allowed to have female-only spaces, and that males who wish to use female-only spaces should be entitled to do so regardless of what females think about it. The message is that males should be given leave to do whatever they want and females should know their place and be silent about it.

I disagree very strongly with the message.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Why do adult female humans deserve special protection from the violent humans they have given birth to and raised with a set of values that makes them think treating people that way is acceptable?

Every group wants to absolve themselves of responsibility and avoid the consequences of their actions.

We make our own Hell.

For ◊◊◊◊'s sake, this is an absurd position you've taken. Not only have you simply hand-waved away the physical differences between males and females that makes females more vulnerable... you've taken the extra step of implying that rapists are the fault of females! You've decided that females are to blame for male violence against females. WTAF?

 

[Emily's Cat]

So no male physicians or therapists then?

Clearly, you have never bothered to look into the shocking number of females who have been sexually assaulted by their male doctors.