Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[smartcooky]

The instinct itself is not the problem. It's the inability of some men to control it, and who consequently force themselves on unconsenting females, that's the problem.

Yes. But it's only a problem if she is unable to control herself, and consequently forces herself on unconsenting males.

It's not just asexual women who object to the loss of their safe spaces and sports leagues, so my sexuality is irrelevant.

Believe it or not your views do not represent 100% of men. Men who have young daughters, in particular, often disagree with your views and agree with mine.

Indeed, and some of us have grand-daughters too.

If, heaven forbid, one of them should ever need the services of a rape crisis centre, I don't want transgender self-indentified men anywhere near them: https://www.theguardian.com/society...boss-apologises-for-edinburgh-centre-failings

If one of them ends up in trouble with the law, I don't want them strip-searched by a cosplaying transgender self-indentified male in womanface:

Why are the police allowing trans officers to strip-search women?

Biologically male officers identifying as female can intimately search women so long as they have a gender recognition certificate

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Oooooookay. And this is relevant to this topic because....?

It was in response to Rolfe's post with the link to a cartoon posted on X with the assertion "Differences in male and female behaviour necessitate private spaces for women and girls" at the top of it. The point was to give some examples of females engaging in predatory behaviour.

Humans have been making similar arguments throughout history to exclude all members of a particular "undesirable" group by pointing out the worst behaviour of members of that group and claiming it is an intrinsic characteristic of all the members.

In this case the group is "human male" and the characteristic is "engaging in predatory sexual behaviour."

Since I've given a few examples of females engaging in sexual predatory behaviour we can now say a characteristic of human females is engaging in predatory sexual behaviour.

 

[smartcooky]

Since I've given a few examples of females engaging in sexual predatory behaviour we can now say a characteristic of human females is engaging in predatory sexual behaviour.

No!

Statistics: Victims of Sexual Violence - RAINN

Sexual Violence Affects Millions of Americans Younger People Face the Highest Risk of Sexual Violence Women & Girls Experience Sexual Violence at High Rates Millions of Women in the U.S. Have Experienced Rape Young Women are Especially at Risk Read more statistics about campus sexual violence...

rainn.org

82% of all juvenile victims are female.​

90% of adult rape victims are female.​

Females ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.​

Women ages 18-24 who are college students are 3 times more likely than women in general to experience sexual violence.​

Females of the same age who are not enrolled in college are 4 times more likely.​

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Sexual_Abuse_FY21.pdf

93.6% of sexual abuse offenders were men. ​

Despite being less than 50% of the general population

As Rolfe reported earlier in the UK prison statistics,

Transgender self-indentified men are over five times more likely to commit sexual offences than cis men​

transgender self-indentified men are over 500 times more likely to commit sexual offences than cis women​

So again, no!

Your anecdote, while unfortunate for him, is an outlier - IT DOES NOT represent the bigger picture, and that bigger picture is women are far more vulnerable to predation by men than the other way around - Your anecdote does not change the reported, recorded and published facts no matter how much you wish they didn't exist or would just go away!

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

What do the relative risks you've quoted allow you to infer about an individual male, transgender or otherwise?

Other than convicted criminals, do you support the segregation of any other social groups? For example, there are people who would make similar argument for segregating black people and ethnic minorities based on relative risk. Why are they wrong and you are right?

 

[Paul2]

What do the relative risks you've quoted allow you to infer about an individual male, transgender or otherwise?

Other than convicted criminals, do you support the segregation of any other social groups? For example, there are people who would make similar argument for segregating black people and ethnic minorities based on relative risk. Why are they wrong and you are right?

Modesty is one of the central reasons to segregate males and females when intimate areas of the body can be exposed and/or viewed by the other sex. If one wants to argue that males and females should not be segregated when intimates might be exposed, that's an argument that can be made, but it rests on many things having nothing to do with trans folk.

 

[smartcooky]

What do the relative risks you've quoted allow you to infer about an individual male, transgender or otherwise?

That same as the general risk

Individual transgender self-indentified men are over five times more likely to commit sexual offences than cis men
Individual transgender self-indentified men are over 500 times more likely to commit sexual offences than cis women

Other than convicted criminals, do you support the segregation of any other social groups? For example, there are people who would make similar argument for segregating black people and ethnic minorities based on relative risk. Why are they wrong and you are right?

Nope, I'm not buying your "other than convicted criminals" shtick... that's just you trying to set aside facts and evidence you find inconvenient to your chosen narrative

Black and minority people cannot help being black or minority.
Being black or minority is not a mental illnesses, and therefore no treatment is required.
Being black is not something they grow out of, or later be convinced they are not
being black does not grant them the right to abrogate the rights of others.

Gender dysmorphia IS a mental illness. It can be treated, and the vast majority of kids who suffer from it, can be counseled and will eventually grow out of it. But some people in society don't want it treated. The less than 1% of the population must never be allowed to abrogate the rights of the over 50% of the population who are women.

 

[Rolfe]

Voyeurism and exhibitionism are classed as sexual assault. Until the perpetrator decides he's trans, then it's the women who complain who find themselves on the wrong side of the law.

 

[d4m10n]

For example, there are people who would make similar argument for segregating black people and ethnic minorities based on relative risk.

Putting aside the relevant crime statistics, there are way too many distinguishable ethnic groups (and way too much crossover) for this to work. As a white-passing Hispanic having African, Middle Eastern and Indigenous American ancestry, do I just use the rooms for Euro-Americans and hope I don't get clocked as mixed race?

Sex segregation, meanwhile, relies on the convenient fact that over 99% of humans fall clearly on to one developmental pathway or another.

 

[Pixel42]

Modesty is one of the central reasons to segregate males and females when intimate areas of the body can be exposed and/or viewed by the other sex. If one wants to argue that males and females should not be segregated when intimates might be exposed, that's an argument that can be made, but it rests on many things having nothing to do with trans folk.

Unlike people of different skin colours, people of different sexes really do have at least a few genuinely different needs. There has been plenty of unfair discrimination on the grounds of sex (e.g. excluding females (and sometimes males) from jobs they were perfectly capable of doing) but that doesn't mean there aren't any circumstances when it is reasonable to treat males and females differently because of their actual physical differences.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

That same as the general risk

Individual transgender self-indentified men are over five times more likely to commit sexual offences than cis men
Individual transgender self-indentified men are over 500 times more likely to commit sexual offences than cis women

Both those statements are wrong. It is a common mistake people make to "spread" a population statistic evenly amongst the population. For example, the vast majority of rapists are male. However, most rapists are repeat offenders. I.e., the "rapist" characteristic of males is very much skewed to a particular minority of males.

Are most rapists committing “one-offs” or are most rapes committed by a felonious few?

President Joe Biden recently found himself embroiled in debate with rape researchers. As part of a push for funding to clear DNA backlogs, Biden stated that “the average rapist rapes about 6 times.” On the other side, Prof Mary Koss and others argued this is an overestimate, that the average...

www.heatherflowe.com

If the same highly skewed distribution for offending applies to transsexuals then it is rather unfair to tar all transsexuals with the same brush.

Nope, I'm not buying your "other than convicted criminals" shtick... that's just you trying to set aside facts and evidence you find inconvenient to your chosen narrative
Black and minority people cannot help being black or minority.
Being black or minority is not a mental illnesses, and therefore no treatment is required.
Being black is not something they grow out of, or later be convinced they are not
being black does not grant them the right to abrogate the rights of others.

So what if they can't help being black? The statistics point to black people being a problem so we should at least segregate them and possibly shoot them if they knock on our front doors. Or are you only a part time bigot?

Gender dysmorphia IS a mental illness. It can be treated, and the vast majority of kids who suffer from it, can be counseled and will eventually grow out of it. But some people in society don't want it treated. The less than 1% of the population must never be allowed to abrogate the rights of the over 50% of the population who are women.

What about the individuals that don't grow out of it? Is it their fault their brains are the way they are?

I've been looking into the design of unisex toilets. From what I've seen I think that if they are designed and implemented correctly then they would actually improve safety for everyone, males and females. For example, if the cubicles and doors are full height then there is no need to have soundproof doors on the entry to the communal area. In one coffee shop I visited the full height cubicles had sinks in, so the only problem left is if you're against sharing what amounts to a corridor with transsexuals.

 

[Rolfe]

The problem is that you're sharing a corridor with men. No way to exclude men from that corridor space. All a predator has to do is wait till a woman is about to enter a cubicle and there's nobody else about. Push her into the cubicle, push in behind her and lock the door. Now the woman is in a locked cubicle with floor to ceiling walls and doors, and apparently soundproofed too, with her rapist.

Also, women use the communal space in the Ladies to communicate with each other. To offer and seek help with feminine emergencies. To excape from importunate men. This is taken from us when the communal space includes men. (It seems to be a big part of many AGP fetishes to want to take part in this female discourse. That's part of the reason that actual trans-identifying men frequently opposed such unisex solutions.)

I suppose every cubicle is big enough to take a pram, too?

 

[Lithrael]

Voyeurism and exhibitionism are classed as sexual assault. Until the perpetrator decides he's trans, then it's the women who complain who find themselves on the wrong side of the law.

Genuinely, I want women to be able to complain and get action taken about voyeurism and exhibitionism by other women, both in general and to cut this particular gordian knot.

 

[smartcooky]

Both those statements are wrong. It is a common mistake people make to "spread" a population statistic evenly amongst the population. For example, the vast majority of rapists are male. However, most rapists are repeat offenders. I.e., the "rapist" characteristic of males is very much skewed to a particular minority of males.

Are most rapists committing “one-offs” or are most rapes committed by a felonious few?

President Joe Biden recently found himself embroiled in debate with rape researchers. As part of a push for funding to clear DNA backlogs, Biden stated that “the average rapist rapes about 6 times.” On the other side, Prof Mary Koss and others argued this is an overestimate, that the average...

www.heatherflowe.com

Thanks for post a link that makes MY point, and refutes yours

If the same highly skewed distribution for offending applies to transsexuals then it is rather unfair to tar all transsexuals with the same brush.

So we must do everything we can to right an alleged injustice for less than 1% of the population, but just dismiss the injustice that creates for over 50% of the rest of the population as insignificant?

So what if they can't help being black? The statistics point to black people being a problem so we should at least segregate them and possibly shoot them if they knock on our front doors.

Or are you only a part time bigot?

It was you who proposed segregating blacks, not me. Who's the bigot again?

What about the individuals that don't grow out of it? Is it their fault their brains are the way they are?

You treat them. You don't pander to them, and allow their mental illness to be used as a wedge to abrogate the rights of others.

I've been looking into the design of unisex toilets. From what I've seen I think that if they are designed and implemented correctly then they would actually improve safety for everyone, males and females. For example, if the cubicles and doors are full height then there is no need to have soundproof doors on the entry to the communal area. In one coffee shop I visited the full height cubicles had sinks in, so the only problem left is if you're against sharing what amounts to a corridor with transsexuals.

Right. So councils, city halls and local authorities everywhere are expected to front-up with the billions of dollars it will cost to remodel public toilets to keep a minuscule percentage of the population who get their panties in a bunch because they angry about being denied the right to invade the private/safe spaces of 50% of the rest of the population.

And it wouldn't work anyway.

For a start, transgender self-indentified men DON'T WANT unisex toilets. They don't want them for the same reason they don't want transgender rape crisis centres or open divisions in sport leagues r.... they WANT to be able to invade women's safe spaces - unisex toilets would deny them the satisfaction of that titillation.

Also, as Rolfe correctly points out, it would create a hazard for women more than keep them safe.

And aside from all this, what about...

1. Women's shelters
2. Rape crisis centres
3. Female prisons
4. Communal changing facilities
5. Female sports

... how does your Master Plan address those issues?

 

[Rolfe]

The cost would be astronomical. And I'm quite serious about the pram thing. A woman with a baby in a pram will often go into a cubicle and pee with the door open and the pram half way in the door. It's impossible to get the pram into most cubicles. How many pram-friendly cubicles do we need (as well as the disabled cubicles). Will it be bad form to use one if you don't have a baby with you?

It's going to be just lovely for the women who are forced to handle a miscarriage in a unisex public toilet too.

 

[d4m10n]

Meanwhile in the Doctor Who athletic conference, SJSU is poised to take the championship in women's volleyball.

 

[Samson]

And reduxx posts a lengthy surfing tale of treachery and deceit to the fury of TRA surfers.

EXCLUSIVE DETAILS: Male Surf Coach Registers For Women's Surf Contest To Highlight Hypocrisy Of "Inclusive" Sport Policies - Reduxx

Trans activists are condemning a male surf coach from Santa Cruz after he participated in a women’s surf contest in protest of gender self-identification policies. Calder Nold, a respected local surf coach once highlighted for saving a baby sea lion, registered for Women on Waves to prove a...

reduxx.info

Irony alert:

"What is wrong with having a male in the contest is that it’s a women’s contest, period,” Tatum said. “In my mind, this includes transgender women, but not males.”

 

[smartcooky]

And another of the Trans Rights Activists' favourite kind of people strikes again!

UK: Trans-Identified Male Groomed 11 Year-Old Girl, Committed "Depraved" Sexual Abuse - Reduxx

A trans-identified male has been convicted in Liverpool for the rape of an 11 year-old girl. Anthony “Aria” Peers, 51, is said to have used the child’s interest in the Star Wars series in order to groom her for sexual abuse. Peers was said to have subjected the child to “depraved” acts which...

reduxx.info

Can someone please remind me how the behaviour of individuals should not tar those like them with the same brush, and how transgender self-indentified men only want to be one of the girls... and yet, we KEEP getting horror stories like that one!!

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

There is no injustice in well designed unisex toilet facilities. All the problems being brought up are either no more difficult to deal with in unisex toilet facilities than they are under sex segregated toilet facilities, or are just ridiculous whataboutism. I get it, you're scared of and/or dislike transsexuals, and because you believe yourself to be rational are trying to come up with reasons why all of them need to be kept away from females and ideally eradicated from society altogether by being "treated". Ironically you are just as extreme and irrational as the other side who wants every child to be bombarded with transsexual propaganda with its rapidly-approaching-infinity number of pigeonholes (and corresponding flags).

The vast majority of transsexuals are no more dangerous to women than anyone else. Smartcooky's completely inaccurate one line response to the blog I linked to indicates there is little point trying to use facts or statistics to better inform his opinion. He doesn't understand the point being made in the blog, so just claimed it was what he wants it to be. Extremist TRA's do the same. I was curious and did a little bit more analysis on the data referred to in the blog I posted a link to. Taking the geometric mean of the last group (9-50 rapes = ~21 rapes) gives an estimate of 9% of male rapists committing 45% of rapes by males.

Sex segregation does not deal with the problem of sexual predators in any useful way. If you do want to make the environment safer for females then you would spend less time campaigning for sex segregation and more time on things that improve the detection and removal from society of predators, as well as things that result in fewer being created in the first place.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

And another of the Trans Rights Activists' favourite kind of people strikes again!

UK: Trans-Identified Male Groomed 11 Year-Old Girl, Committed "Depraved" Sexual Abuse - Reduxx

A trans-identified male has been convicted in Liverpool for the rape of an 11 year-old girl. Anthony “Aria” Peers, 51, is said to have used the child’s interest in the Star Wars series in order to groom her for sexual abuse. Peers was said to have subjected the child to “depraved” acts which...

reduxx.info

Can someone please remind me how the behaviour of individuals should not tar those like them with the same brush, and how transgender self-indentified men only want to be one of the girls... and yet, we KEEP getting horror stories like that one!!

Not a random sample and meaningless flag waving. Adds very little to the debate. No one is arguing that sexual predators don't exist, or that no transsexuals (if that is what he is) commit sexual offences.

You're a grandfather right? Shall I start a thread in which I post links to stories about grandfathers who fiddle with their children's kids to make a case that all grandfathers should be segregated from children? Would that convince you to stop seeing your grandchildren as an example to all elderly men for the good of society?

 

[Rolfe]

The issue with mixed sex toilets is MEN.