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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

My opinion is that incarcerated women should be allowed to vote on this issue.
I don't. In a hypothetical where 51% of women inmates want self-ID trans women to be incarcerated with them, I still won't conclude that self-ID trans women should therefore be imposed on the other 49%.
 
I can't find the Xwitter thread you are talking about, but I've seen it and I agree... the sheer number of reported cases of transwomen attacking, assaulting and raping girls and women in bathrooms is staggering - it makes a lie of the "no evidence its happening" claim being made by some media outlets. This type of news rarely if ever makes it into progressive media because it runs counter to the preferred narrative. The media really have been captured by this TRA nonsense, especially in Australia and New Zealand.

Here are a couple of articles I found about such attacks... IIRC, both were listed in that Xwitter thread



I think in one of these cases the boy didn't actually identify as trans (although he was wearing a skirt), he just went into the girls' bathroom anyway. So the usual suspects all piped up, see, it's not a trans problem, it's cis males you have to worry about.

That's completely missing the point. All this gender nonsense has had the effect of breaking down the normal mores about bathroom segregation. Girls are being socialised not to "scream and run away" (as I was explicitly told to do in a school lesson if I was uncomfortable with something) but to "be kind" and not object to boys in the girls' bathrooms. This makes it far easier for the predator to get in to the enclosed space and close to the girl. Also, given that he was wearing a skirt, the victim might well have thought he would claim trans status if she tried to confront him.

There's also the issue that some of the assaults occurred in mixed-sex facilities. Again, hey that's not relevant because the trans person didn't go into a women-only space. No, the women-only space was abolished to pander to the trans activists (whether the trans people actually wanted it like that or not), and so assaults like this are facilitated.

Boundaries that are/were there for a very good reason are being smashed to get woke blue-and-pink brownie points, and it's not only the explicit Katie Dolatowski sort of situation that can be blamed on this.
 
Sorry if someone has posted on this before, but I didn't find anything in a search. Laura Helmuth is stepping down as editor of Scientific American, following controversy over posts she made on BlueSky on election night, decrying all the fascists in her generation (X) and engaging in profanity as well. That part is not particularly relevant to this thread, but Helmuth has been at the helm of SA during a period where the magazine has become a lot more woke and a lot less scientific, including on transgender issues. Jesse Singal has the details:

Rather than cover these important developments, Scientific American has hermetically sealed itself and its readers inside a comforting, delusional cocoon in which we know youth gender medicine works, beyond a shadow of a doubt, and only bigots and ignoramuses suggest otherwise. Over and over, SciAm simply took what certain activist groups were saying about these treatments and repeated it, basically verbatim, effectively laundering medical misinformation and providing it with the imprimatur of a highly regarded science magazine.

In her post announcing her resignation, she noted some of the articles that she was most proud of publishing, including:

Gender-affirming care for trans kids is good health care
“Rapid onset gender dysphoria” is not a thing
And the first trans clinic was destroyed by Nazis
I'd say she will not be missed, but judging by some of the reactions, it seems likely she will be replaced by someone just as "woke."
 
Are there any examples of women being assaulted in bathrooms/locker rooms by transgender women? Or is this really just a crazy fantasy with no basis in fact?

What percent of trans women have murdered or assaulted someone? Probably a VERY small percent.

Have we done enough for you here, or do you still need someone to dredge up that Twitter thread detailing all the girls and women who have been raped or sexually assaulted by trans-identifying men in women's bathrooms?

Looking specifically at people in prison for sexual assault, trans-identifying men are five times more likely to be imprisoned for an offence of that nature than other men. The total number of examples of women being assaulted in bathrooms by trans-identifying men may be uncertain, but it is a hell of a lot more than zero. If we add changing rooms to that, and recognise that voyeurism and flashing are both classed as sexual crimes, the number absolutely shoots up - [Wil]lia[m] Thomas himself was committing these crimes three times a day against multiple women at one point.

Why are you so reluctant to face up to the evidence that a significant number of males who identify as trans are violent sex offenders?
 
In a hypothetical where 51% of women inmates want self-ID trans women to be incarcerated with them, I still won't conclude that self-ID trans women should therefore be imposed on the other 49%.
I love that you're looking out for the prisoners rights here, but right now 100% of them don't get any say at all.
 
What percent does it have to be before you will concede to women the right to privacy, modesty and decency?

Perhaps you missed the bit where I showed that one in every 522 trans-identified males in England and Wales were actually in prison for sexual offences at the time of counting. That is almost 0.2% of them. Do you seriously think every single trans-identified male who has committed a sexual offence has been caught, convicted and is behind bars? Care to speculate what percentage of such offenders actually get caught and imprisoned? And that's not including the ones who were convicted and given non-custodial sentences, or the ones who were so convicted, but had already been released at the time of counting.

In contrast, only one in every 2,530 non-trans-identifying males were in prison for the same offences at the same time. That is just under 0.04% of them.

Trans-identifying men are FIVE TIMES more likely to commit sex crimes than other men. They are precisely the group who should never never be allowed within a million miles of women's private spaces.
 
We do have an answer though. Statistics (which seem comparable over several jurisdictions) show that around 0.2% of trans-identifying men are actually imprisoned for sexual offences at any one time. That's the baseline. To that we can add those who were convicted but did not receive a custodial sentence, and those who have already been released after serving their sentence. The available figures don't include these (although if we knew the average length of sentence then we might hazard a guess at how many convicted trans sex offenders have been released). Then of course there are those who were never caught, or who were acquitted because there was insufficient evidence. These estimates are left as an exercise for the reader.

Only 0.2%, I hear Hercules say? That's very few, precious little danger there. But that's assuming that every single trans sex offender is actually in prison at any given time.

If 0.2% can be disregarded, then how much easier is it to disregard 0.04%? Why, that's hardly anybody at all! Where's the risk? Congratulations, you just proved that men never commit sexual offences at all.
 
I love that you're looking out for the prisoners rights here, but right now 100% of them don't get any say at all.
And I'm OK with that part. They are prisoners, after all. If they had a say in it, they wouldn't be prisoners in the first place.

I'm not interested in protecting their say in the matter. I am interested in protecting their physical safety.
 
Why must people lie?
Most people lie to deceive, because the truth is not convenient. But that's not actually the case here. He isn't lying to deceive, because everyone already knows the truth. He's lying as part of an effort to force you to lie as well. And the point of forcing other people to lie isn't to convince them, but to force obedience.
 
We do have an answer though. Statistics (which seem comparable over several jurisdictions) show that around 0.2% of trans-identifying men are actually imprisoned for sexual offences at any one time. That's the baseline. To that we can add those who were convicted but did not receive a custodial sentence, and those who have already been released after serving their sentence. The available figures don't include these (although if we knew the average length of sentence then we might hazard a guess at how many convicted trans sex offenders have been released). Then of course there are those who were never caught, or who were acquitted because there was insufficient evidence. These estimates are left as an exercise for the reader.

Only 0.2%, I hear Hercules say? That's very few, precious little danger there. But that's assuming that every single trans sex offender is actually in prison at any given time.

If 0.2% can be disregarded, then how much easier is it to disregard 0.04%? Why, that's hardly anybody at all! Where's the risk? Congratulations, you just proved that men never commit sexual offences at all.
Indeed.

If we apply this 0.2% (which at first glance, seems a small number) to the male population of the UK, in other words, if cis men committed those types of crimes at the same rate as transwomen, there would right now be 70,000 men in prison JUST for those types of crimes
 
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We do have an answer though. Statistics (which seem comparable over several jurisdictions) show that around 0.2% of trans-identifying men are actually imprisoned for sexual offences at any one time.That's the baseline. To that we can add those who were convicted but did not receive a custodial sentence, and those who have already been released after serving their sentence. The available figures don't include these (although if we knew the average length of sentence then we might hazard a guess at how many convicted trans sex offenders have been released). Then of course there are those who were never caught, or who were acquitted because there was insufficient evidence. These estimates are left as an exercise for the reader.

Only 0.2%, I hear Hercules say? That's very few, precious little danger there. But that's assuming that every single trans sex offender is actually in prison at any given time.

If 0.2% can be disregarded, then how much easier is it to disregard 0.04%? Why, that's hardly anybody at all! Where's the risk? Congratulations, you just proved that men never commit sexual offences at all.

Indeed.

If we apply this 0.2% (which at first glance, seems a small number) to the male population of the UK, in other words, if cis men committed those types of crimes at the same rate as transwomen, there would right now be 70,000 men in prison JUST for those types of crimes
There is a problem with talking across jurisdictions though. For one thing, in the US, according to this, 0.7% of the entire population is in prison*. Whereas in the UK, apparently it is only about 0.15% of the population ("In 2024, the prison population of the United Kingdom stood at approximately 97,800 people, of which 87,900 were in England and Wales, 8,000 in Scotland, and a further 1,900 were in Northern Ireland.").

In other words, the US locks up far more people (men, women and miscellaneous) than the UK, so I am skeptical, to say the least, that 0.2% of total transgender population are in prison for sexual offences across jurisdictions.

*But, if we look at only the male population in the US and how many of them are incarcerated for sexual offences, what do we find? Apparently it is something like 0.2%.

Anyway, we should also be careful with these kinds of statistics. There are all kinds of confounding factors such as age and ethnicity.

After all, what are we trying to do here? Are we trying to argue that, hey guess what, transgenders are mostly just a bunch of dirty pervs? Don't you think that there are plenty of people who would use exactly the same kinds of arguments to make all kinds of "I'm jus' sayin'" claims about black people, for example?

Similarly, the whole, "I saw a massive Twitter thread about criminal transgenders" is poor methodology. You must both be aware of the kinds of Twitter threads and general communities that collect rage-bait which is no doubt about real phenomena but presented in such a way as to radicalize people in some way. Have you not seen plenty of these types of anti-immigrant or racist accounts which will just be video of ethic minorities - black people, gypsies, Jews, Muslims, whoever - doing or saying things that will pander to the prejudices of the readers?

So I honestly don't see this unsubstantiated 0.2% figure as something that is worth accepting without heavy qualification.

The points can be easily made that segregation of biological sexes is done for perfectly good reasons and should remain for those exact reasons.
 
The points can be easily made that segregation of biological sexes is done for perfectly good reasons and should remain for those exact reasons.

Unfortunately, however, many people don't accept that argument, and start demanding that we provide evidence of actual sexual assaults carried out by trans-identifying men, and even quantify the percentage of trans-identifying men who commit such offences. Apparently there people, and we see them in this thread, who don't believe women are entitled to male-free spaces purely on the grounds of modesty, dignity and privacy. They even seem to believe that a certain number of sexual assaults are acceptable collateral damage, although they don't specify how many.

Hence we have people running the numbers and coming up with figures. These figures are not unsubstantiated. The article I linked to showed its working. And if only 0.15% of the British population is in jail, for anything at all, and yet 0.2% of trans-identifying men are in prison convicted of sexual offences, that's an issue. The figure is about the same for the other jurisdictions looked at in the article. The USA is an outlier in a lot of things, and I don't have the data to run these numbers.

What are we trying to do here? We're interrogating the available data to answer the challenges from trans supporters who seem to swallow the narrative that trans-identifying men are all sweet-natured, vulnerable, marginalised souls who wouldn't hurt a fly. And we find that the data don't support that at all.

Never mind the Twitter thread, although there are many excellent compilations of data on all sorts of things in Twitter threads. The transcrime web site linked above has more details.

If it is indeed the case that a significant proportion of trans-identifying men are "a bunch of filthy pervs" (nobody is claiming they all are), then that is something this debate has to face up to, not turn away from in a fit of the vapours because the conclusion is unwelcome.
 
The demands for evidence of the danger in this case are demands that Society consent to attacks and assaults of women in restrooms by trans-identifying men before they will accept it is in fact a danger.

I am pretty certain that most women, if given the choice, would rather not have to try to put the genie back in the bottle, and instead, keep the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ lid closed in the first place.
 
Unfortunately, however, many people don't accept that argument, and start demanding that we provide evidence of actual sexual assaults carried out by trans-identifying men, and even quantify the percentage of trans-identifying men who commit such offences. Apparently there people, and we see them in this thread, who don't believe women are entitled to male-free spaces purely on the grounds of modesty, dignity and privacy. They even seem to believe that a certain number of sexual assaults are acceptable collateral damage, although they don't specify how many.

Hence we have people running the numbers and coming up with figures. These figures are not unsubstantiated. The article I linked to showed its working. And if only 0.15% of the British population is in jail, for anything at all, and yet 0.2% of trans-identifying men are in prison convicted of sexual offences, that's an issue. The figure is about the same for the other jurisdictions looked at in the article. The USA is an outlier in a lot of things, and I don't have the data to run these numbers.

What are we trying to do here? We're interrogating the available data to answer the challenges from trans supporters who seem to swallow the narrative that trans-identifying men are all sweet-natured, vulnerable, marginalised souls who wouldn't hurt a fly. And we find that the data don't support that at all.

Never mind the Twitter thread, although there are many excellent compilations of data on all sorts of things in Twitter threads. The transcrime web site linked above has more details.

If it is indeed the case that a significant proportion of trans-identifying men are "a bunch of filthy pervs" (nobody is claiming they all are), then that is something this debate has to face up to, not turn away from in a fit of the vapours because the conclusion is unwelcome.
I accept the conclusion that trans-identifying men should not be put in women’s jails. Same goes for sport and women’s toilets.
 
The demands for evidence of the danger in this case are demands that Society consent to attacks and assaults of women in restrooms by trans-identifying men before they will accept it is in fact a danger.

I am pretty certain that most women, if given the choice, would rather not have to try to put the genie back in the bottle, and instead, keep the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ lid closed in the first place.
No, demands for evidence in this case, or any other case, is a completely justifiable skeptical requirement for accepting any claim.
 

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