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So what form does the resistance take?

stanfr

Illuminator
stanfr
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
3,901
Now that insanity and evil have triumphed, what comes next from the opposition?

I voted for Dean Philips in the Democratic Primary, as one of a handful of candidates who recognized that Biden-Harris would be a complete disaster.
He got 3% of the vote here, while Biden racked up 83+%.
Progressive candidates and reform candidates warned of the danger. Bernie was very outspoken about it. Andrew Yang correctly noted the Dems were committing suicide.

If MAGA is to be resisted, there has to be a *quick* organization of an opposition, cause once entrenched, a Trump dynasty will crush the opposition just as the Nazis did. Bernie is too old to be a viable voice. Walz might have had a shot but he tied himself to the sinking ship. No celebrities seem to want to step forward as a populist candidate. And that is clearly what is needed, someone popular and/or populist. So who is it--who is the leader of the resistance? Does there even have to be one? Can a strongman be countered by a hodgepodge of contrary voices? Should it be far left, like the Democratic Youth who want to not only defund but eliminate the police? Or does it have to be someone/something more centrist? I really don't know--hence me writing this post. ;)
 
Considering your thread is asking what form of resistance should be taken I would suggest that not following the advice of the losing VP candidate that did not carry his home County. If his advice and leadership did not influence his fellow neighbors to vote for him, it seems questionable to employ that advice as a form of resistance to Conservatism.

Added: I did not mean to offend, just pointed out the absurdity.
 
stanfr said:
Now that insanity and evil have triumphed, what comes next from the opposition?

I voted for Dean Philips in the Democratic Primary, as one of a handful of candidates who recognized that Biden-Harris would be a complete disaster.
He got 3% of the vote here, while Biden racked up 83+%.
Progressive candidates and reform candidates warned of the danger. Bernie was very outspoken about it. Andrew Yang correctly noted the Dems were committing suicide.

If MAGA is to be resisted, there has to be a *quick* organization of an opposition, cause once entrenched, a Trump dynasty will crush the opposition just as the Nazis did. Bernie is too old to be a viable voice. Walz might have had a shot but he tied himself to the sinking ship. No celebrities seem to want to step forward as a populist candidate. And that is clearly what is needed, someone popular and/or populist. So who is it--who is the leader of the resistance? Does there even have to be one? Can a strongman be countered by a hodgepodge of contrary voices? Should it be far left, like the Democratic Youth who want to not only defund but eliminate the police? Or does it have to be someone/something more centrist? I really don't know--hence me writing this post. ;)
Click to expand...
This may come as news to you, but Trump can only be in office for 4 years. He's term limited out in 2028 since he's already served one term....... is what I want to say but the OP is applying Godwin's Law pretty early into the discussion....

EDIT: Before I forget. You got mid-terms in two years. So if the Democratic party is improving it's messaging and policies (you know.... not promoting things like a revolution)... they might get enough influence clawed back in the chambers to add more checks and balances sooner...
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Considering your thread is asking what form of resistance should be taken I would suggest that not following the advice of the losing VP candidate that did not carry his home County. If his advice and leadership did not influence his fellow neighbors to vote for him, it seems questionable to employ that advice as a form of resistance to Conservatism.

Added: I did not mean to offend, just pointed out the absurdity.
Click to expand...
Point taken, although note I'm not talking about resistance to 'conservatism' im talking about resistance to Trumpism, which is not the same. The movement from the left probably has to take some populist form that appeals to the working class--the question I have is how anti 'Neo liberalist' it will be. Even in pure red states, issues like minimum wage won big, and that is a classic socialist issue. So there is obviously some room there for the right messenger.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
This may come as news to you, but Trump can only be in office for 4 years. He's term limited out in 2028 since he's already served one term....... is what I want to say but the OP is applying Godwin's Law pretty early into the discussion....

EDIT: Before I forget. You got mid-terms in two years. So if the Democratic party is improving it's messaging and policies (you know.... not promoting things like a revolution)... they might get enough influence clawed back in the chambers to add more checks and balances sooner...
Click to expand...
I've already heard argument from the right that there are loopholes to the 22d amendment. Trump of course has explicitly said he believes those part of the Constitution that prevent him from holding power should "be thrown out"

The midterms are a huge point of discussion, so thanks for bringing them up. I am not sure we can expect a repeat of 2018. Trump is inept, no doubt, but I worry that with both houses he will (as many dictators do) build a perceived economic and political boost, by doing things like completely obliterating our wilderness areas by indiscriminately drilling, to increase domestic oil production, which in turn will lower the prices of goods. So, short term perceived success which will enable MAGA to retain power, only at the expense of the planet and our species survival. But it will be an interesting 2 years for sure!
 
stanfr said:
I've already heard argument from the right that there are loopholes to the 22d amendment. Trump of course has explicitly said he believes those part of the Constitution that prevent him from holding power should "be thrown out"

The midterms are a huge point of discussion, so thanks for bringing them up. I am not sure we can expect a repeat of 2018. Trump is inept, no doubt, but I worry that with both houses he will (as many dictators do) build a perceived economic and political boost, by doing things like completely obliterating our wilderness areas by indiscriminately drilling, to increase domestic oil production, which in turn will lower the prices of goods. So, short term perceived success which will enable MAGA to retain power, only at the expense of the planet and our species survival. But it will be an interesting 2 years for sure!
Click to expand...
Assuming Trump means that more than just as a joke, I find it unlikely that'll happen. You need either a 2/3 majority of votes in both the House and the senate, or you need a Constitutional convention with 2/3 of the states requesting congress to call a Constitutional convention. It'd likely be the former path to change things, but even with the current senate and house dynamics it doesn't look likely the votes are available to change the 22nd amendment. Even if he succeeded in getting it proposed... it'd still have to be ratified. The 22nd amendment took 4 years to ratify, ecpect a repeal of it to take similarly long.... by the time it needs to even have a chance of being passed, Trump's going to be too old and too far term limited to really care about doing a third term... By that point I think it'd be opening a huge can of worms letting both parties have that option back. So yea... no thanks to that.
 
dudalb said:
How about this for starters

"https://news.yahoo.com/news/california-gov-newsom-calls-special-190609102.html

Federalism in action.

Walz and Newsom seem to be on the same page.

And I think that, frankly, Trump's age and health will rule out any attempt at a 2028 run.
Click to expand...
Newsom (who the right calls 'Newscum') is one of the people I was pondering in making this post. I think given his reputation, despite his quickness on his feet, he might have a disadvantage at taking the lead. The MSM was quick to run stories on how he is already the 2028 favorite--which simply proves that he might be the worst pick. Ive owned a retail shop now in both AZ and CO with a lot of CA visitors and 'expatriates' and I can't tell you how much he is despised by so many for what he supposedly has done in his home state. But FWIW I think he would have handled Trump better in this campaign than Harris did.
 
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stanfr said:
Newsom (who the right calls 'Newscum') is on of the people I was pondering in making this post. I think given his reputation, despite his quickness on his feet, he might have a disadvantage at taking the lead. The MSM was quick to run stories on how he is already the 2028 favorite--which simply proves that he might be the worst pick. Ive owned a retail shop now in both AZ and CO with a lot of CA visitors and 'expatriates' and I can't tell you how much he is despised by so many for what he supposed has done in his home state. But FWIW I think he would have handled Trump better in this campaign than Harris did.
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I am no fan of Newsom...and being in Sacramento I have had a front seat for his antics...I think he is basically a lightweighr and capable of real political stupidty..the whole French Laundry fiasco shows that....but he will be a contender.
The French Laundry is a very expensive and famous gourmet restuarant up in Mendicino county norht of SF..the kind of place where you need to make your reservations a month in advance...and in the fall of 2020, after ordering the closing of restaurants in California due to a upsurge of COvid, ..held a big fundraiser there. Not a good look at all. This was what caused his 2021 recall.
uo
 
stanfr said:
Now that insanity and evil have triumphed, what comes next from the opposition?

I voted for Dean Philips in the Democratic Primary, as one of a handful of candidates who recognized that Biden-Harris would be a complete disaster.
He got 3% of the vote here, while Biden racked up 83+%.
Progressive candidates and reform candidates warned of the danger. Bernie was very outspoken about it. Andrew Yang correctly noted the Dems were committing suicide.

If MAGA is to be resisted, there has to be a *quick* organization of an opposition, cause once entrenched, a Trump dynasty will crush the opposition just as the Nazis did. Bernie is too old to be a viable voice. Walz might have had a shot but he tied himself to the sinking ship. No celebrities seem to want to step forward as a populist candidate. And that is clearly what is needed, someone popular and/or populist. So who is it--who is the leader of the resistance? Does there even have to be one? Can a strongman be countered by a hodgepodge of contrary voices? Should it be far left, like the Democratic Youth who want to not only defund but eliminate the police? Or does it have to be someone/something more centrist? I really don't know--hence me writing this post. ;)
Click to expand...
God, you Berniebros will simply not let it go, will you?
Bernie is too far to the left to win in the general election. if anything, last Tuesday should underline that.
 
stanfr said:
I've already heard argument from the right that there are loopholes to the 22d amendment. Trump of course has explicitly said he believes those part of the Constitution that prevent him from holding power should "be thrown out"

The midterms are a huge point of discussion, so thanks for bringing them up. I am not sure we can expect a repeat of 2018. Trump is inept, no doubt, but I worry that with both houses he will (as many dictators do) build a perceived economic and political boost, by doing things like completely obliterating our wilderness areas by indiscriminately drilling, to increase domestic oil production, which in turn will lower the prices of goods. So, short term perceived success which will enable MAGA to retain power, only at the expense of the planet and our species survival. But it will be an interesting 2 years for sure!
Click to expand...
He may give a third term a try, and may have his three SCOTUS picks sympathetic, but I don't see it going anywhere.

In terms of resistance, probably the same as last time. A lot of bitching and moaning and just waiting it out. And true, if he gets House too, which seems very possible, then you should absolutely be scared. It's kind of the last line of defense.
 
PitPat said:
He may give a third term a try, and may have his three SCOTUS picks sympathetic, but I don't see it going anywhere.

In terms of resistance, probably the same as last time. A lot of bitching and moaning and just waiting it out. And true, if he gets both houses of Congress, which seems very possible, then you should absolutely be scared. It's kind of the last line of defense.
Click to expand...
Last time he had control of both houses for the first two years, and it was not the end of the world.
Problem with Trump is makes a lot of contracitory statments and , well, justBS a lot.
A lot of what he proposed to do will not be popular with people who voted for him when they understand it will cut programs they like
and they will let the house rep know they don;t like it. That will slow down a lot of the budget proposols.
The whole problem with the GOP is they love to yell about huge cuts to government spending, but when it comes to actually making the cuts, they back off a lot.
And it is not like everybody who voted for Trump is MAGA. Many chose him as the lesser of two evils, and they are not that loyal to him. Never forget that.
I think his health is going to keep him from a 2028 run.
And he will feel his age. He might not want to run for that reason.
 
dudalb said:
Last time he had control of both houses for the first two years, and it was not the end of the world.
Problem with Trump is makes a lot of contracitory statments and , well, justBS a lot.
A lot of what he proposed to do will not be popular with people who voted for him when they understand it will cut programs they like
and they will let the house rep know they don;t like it. That will slow down a lot of the budget proposols.
The whole problem with the GOP is they love to yell about huge cuts to government spending, but when it comes to actually making the cuts, they back off a lot.
And it is not like everybody who voted for Trump is MAGA. Many chose him as the lesser of two evils, and they are not that loyal to him. Never forget that.
I think his health is going to keep him from a 2028 run.
And he will feel his age. He might not want to run for that reason.
Click to expand...
The difference here I think is that last time he knew he had to run again. Now, he doesn't have much to lose by going even more bat-◊◊◊◊ crazy if he feels like it. GOP is goddamn scared of him and their re-election prospects that they'll probably toe the line.
 
As I pointed out earlier, he's limited by the constitution and has no realistic path to exploiting it. The worst that can happen for you is if the Republican party maintains or increases it's house and senate margins, and Vance or whoever the next candidate ends up being becomes POTUS. While any of the three maintaining things is plausible, that's only the case if Democrats don't get their act back together in at least some capacity, or unless the electoral demographics have shifted sufficiently. I'm in doubt about republicans maintaining the house and senate leads for more than a couple of years. There's already recent precedent for me to say that hailing from the Obama era. But I'm not about to play predictions.

Bottom line is it's not the end of the world yet.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Considering your thread is asking what form of resistance should be taken I would suggest that not following the advice of the losing VP candidate that did not carry his home County. If his advice and leadership did not influence his fellow neighbors to vote for him, it seems questionable to employ that advice as a form of resistance to Conservatism.
Click to expand...
People don't vote based on the VP. They vote based on the presidential candidate and/or party affiliation.
dudalb said:
I see our #1 Trumper is back after an abscence of a few months.
He always brags and boasts when Trump is on the rise, and then runs away when things don't jgo so well for Trump.
I cannot take him seriously. Welcome to ignore.
Click to expand...
Well, someone has to hunt down Bigfoot!
 
Grizzly Bear said:
As I pointed out earlier, he's limited by the constitution and has no realistic path to exploiting it. The worst that can happen for you is if the Republican party maintains or increases it's house and senate margins, and Vance or whoever the next candidate ends up being becomes POTUS. While any of the three maintaining things is plausible, that's only the case if Democrats don't get their act back together in at least some capacity, or unless the electoral demographics have shifted sufficiently. I'm in doubt about republicans maintaining the house and senate leads for more than a couple of years. There's already recent precedent for me to say that hailing from the Obama era. But I'm not about to play predictions.

Bottom line is it's not the end of the world yet.
Click to expand...
I would like to beleive you, but I am concerned if Trump decides to go all out and ignore the COnsttution, fhow many in the GOP would take the risks of opposing him?
WHo would stop him? Any system of controls is only as good as the people who enforce it. I am not confident and don't trust the GOP here.
 
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