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Psychics and Missing People

Kelly

Philosopher
K
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
6,277
Location
Renton, WA
Hello all,

I am the mother of a missing person and the founder of a nonprofit which assists families of the missing in the US. In my position(s), it seems like I am a magnet for all sorts of loonies claiming they want to help either solve my son's case, or solve cases of the families we serve. Frankly, I tire of it all.

The last few that came to me with their offers were told by me (in as nice of a way as I could) that when they could pass Randi's test to come back. Of course, I didn't hear anything back from them in response.

Some of the "believers" try to play on guilt in that they say people in my position should try any (legal) means possible to find their missing loved one. It is subtlely implied that if I am not willing to subject myself to this, then I must not really care about finding my son. It is a chance I should always take, I am told.

A relative paid one of these charlatans to do a "reading" with me, despite my objections. I agreed, but said I would never do it again. She paid the woman the "discounted" fee of $50, which was to include a tape of the entire ordeal. (We never did get the tape.) At that time, I had already been reading about their methods, and I refused to give her any info and play into her game. She had the audacity to then convince my mother that I "ruined" the reading because of my attitude. (I was polite to the woman. I just did not react to her probes.) As typical, when she claimed to be speaking to my son's spirit, she could not get the "spirit" to answer a simple question about one of his likes, which I then posed. After that, she started to get annoyed with me.

I have plenty of stories about these people and my own experiences with them, plus experiences of other family members of the missing. I also know behind the scenes stories about Sylvia Browne and her scamming. And, as you might expect, none of these person's case have been solved by these people.

What I want to be able to accomplish by posting here, is to have a very complete collection of links debunking the advantage takers when it comes to missing person's cases. I do have a few, such as the Carla Baron exposee and several others which are linked to this site.

Another thing which would be helpful and would probably require someone with a pyschiatry background, is to find a way to help these families who feel pressured to use psychics, to not feel guilty about refusing these offers.

And finally, I would love to find someone who is fairly well known in the debunking area, especially when it comes to missing person's cases, to do an interview for the blog I write.

Thank you.

Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
President and Founder,
Project Jason
 
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I don't know if you've visited the Skeptic's Dictionary, but I find it's a good place to start. Not only is there a ton of information (that I will get through someday), but they list further resources along with cites.

Here's their entry on psychic detectives: http://skepdic.com/psychdet.html

The Skeptic's Society has a letter to ABC news "Exposing the Errors of
ABC’s Primetime Thursday" http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/archives/2004/04-05-04.html

Here's a CSICOP article: http://www.csicop.org/si/2005-07/i-files.html

A video: http://www.csicop.org/articles/psychic-detectives/index.html

Another two articles: http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/psychic-sleuthing.html & http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/police-psychics.html

I can run a few database searches too, if you'd like, but they won't provide links. At best, I'd probably just be doing some research for you, but if you'd like, let me know.

And thank you.
 
Thank you.

Yes, I am quite sure I have visited the Skeptic's Dictionary a few times. Perhaps that's where I learned about some of the methodology.

I would greatly appreciate any research that can be done with locating stories where these people were debunked in missing person's cases. I work full time and run the org full time, so I can use the help.

I will be writing a series about this on my blog in the future which will incorporate this info along with family stories, and hopefully, some commentary from experts.

I have seen far too many families hurt by this. One woman I know literally almost drove herself crazy following every "lead" on the weekends, traveling hundreds of milies for nothing. Desperation makes a person lose sight of reality. The desire to end what I call the waking nightmare, the "not knowing" takes people where they normally may not have gone. But then again, nothing is normal when you live this life.

Thanks,
Kelly
 
That's horrible news, Kelly. I wish you all the best that science and the police can provide, and I hope your family doesn't continue to be harassed by phony psychics.

Please keep us posted on the investigation.
 
Welcome to the forum, Kelly.

It seems to me that you are the best source for the kind of shenanigans these "psychic detectives" pull. Perhaps you could post a collection of the kind of solicitations you get from them.

After all, these psychics claim it is the families who come to them, not vice versa. And they all like to claim they are working on missing persons cases. Anything you could do here to bring the real truth to light would be great.

Do you remember the Elizabeth Smart case? Well, there was a remote viewer organization that stuck their nose in the case, and within days of her disappearance declared her dead. And then they posted all kinds of remote viewer drawings on their site which depicted where she had been buried. They even made strong insinuations of who might be guilty of her death. You can imagine their embarassment when Elizabeth turned up alive.

Well, some of us here at JREF managed to download all of their public proclamations, photos and drawings, and everything else they published about the Smart case right before they went into damage control mode and removed all that material from their web site. Subsequently, Claus Larsen wrote an article about the whole debacle on his Skeptic Report web site, which you can read by clicking here.

Also, Kelly, once a year the James Randi Educational Foundation has what is called The Amazing Meeting. At these conferences, hundreds of people attend to listen to a few days worth of lectures and presentations by skeptics from various walks of life. It sounds to me like your experience with psychic detectives might be a terrific showcase presentation.

If it isn't too much to ask, would you mind telling us of the circumstances of your son's disappearance and what has developed in the case?

edited to add: Never mind. I see Darat posted a link to your site.
 
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KellyJ said:
Thank you.

Yes, I am quite sure I have visited the Skeptic's Dictionary a few times. Perhaps that's where I learned about some of the methodology.

I would greatly appreciate any research that can be done with locating stories where these people were debunked in missing person's cases. I work full time and run the org full time, so I can use the help.

I will be writing a series about this on my blog in the future which will incorporate this info along with family stories, and hopefully, some commentary from experts.

I have seen far too many families hurt by this. One woman I know literally almost drove herself crazy following every "lead" on the weekends, traveling hundreds of milies for nothing. Desperation makes a person lose sight of reality. The desire to end what I call the waking nightmare, the "not knowing" takes people where they normally may not have gone. But then again, nothing is normal when you live this life.

Thanks,
Kelly
Click to expand...

I'll try and get back to you tomorrow then or later tonight. They added a database of science journals this semester so I'm expecting the best results to come from that and not necessarily from news reports.
 
As a person close to a missing person case that's also gone unsolved I can relate, however I wasn't immediate family so I was not the one the psychics came to visit. My uncle would tell the psychics if they can go out and find her then by all means, go ahead, just don't expect to get any money for it. He would politely tell them he didn't believe psychics had any ability so if they wanted to prove him wrong, go ahead. If money or reward was mentioned he would kindly direct them to ask all future questions to the detective in charge of the investigation.

I think you'll find many, many supporters here, if you need anything, just ask.
 
KellyJ said:
My own mother paid one of these charlatans to do a "reading" with me, despite my objections. I agreed, but said I would never do it again. She paid the woman the "discounted" fee of $50, which was to include a tape of the entire ordeal. (We never did get the tape.)
Click to expand...

I'm shocked that a psychic would have the audacity to charge money for their "service" in helping find a missing child. This makes me angry. I don’t want to say anymore.

LLH
 
I can think of a missing persons case involving Sylvia Browne. About ten years ago, she was on the Montel Williams show, talking about missing persons cases. One case involved that bass player from Iron Butterfly, who had gone missing a year or so earlier. Anyway, Sylvia claimed she saw him being kidnapped and taken aboard a boat. She also said he was probably dead,which seemed very cruel of her to say. A couple of years later, his remains were found:

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,4843,00.html

I don't recall any news stories about Sylvia Browne being wrong about this case, but maybe James Randi has better documentation in his files.
 
LordoftheLeftHand said:
I'm shocked that a psychic would have the audacity to charge money for their "service" in helping find a missing child. This makes me angry. I don’t want to say anymore.

LLH
Click to expand...

A private detective would charge money to look for a missing child.
 
Thank you for the warm welcome. I will try to respond to the various inquiries.

I have a separate website for my son's case, but I cannot post links yet. It's a very baffling case which has eluded veteran LE and a decent pro-bono PI. A websearch on Jason Jolkowski should offer this site as 1st on the list. A websearch on my name should find the blog and numerous other stories.

I know quite a few families who went on Montel for the SB segments. She was never right once that we know of. The link for the story posted above about her does not appear to work.

LeCynthia, PM me and tell me about your missing family member.

Thanks to LostAngeles for the research and help.

LukeT: I have never approached a psychic, ever. They have all come to me or come to people who know me. I agree that I would be a good resource for sharing these stories. I have never put them on "pen and paper" but will be working on this in the next few weeks for the blog series. It was always too painful at the time, but I know it is important to help expose these people.

I heard about the Smart case and the group who made the "fatal" error. I may have even read the report about it at one point.

I would probably not be able to attend the Amazing Meeting. I'm sure it is rather enlightening on many fronts. We're a very small org and can only afford 1-2 annual trips which are educational in nature in respect to our mission statement. On a personal level, I'm a check-to-check working stiff who could not afford to pay for such a trip on my own.

Yes, I have many stories about these people. I even tried to pretend to be a gullible person in order to get some "dirt" on one of them, but in the end both LE and the FBI told me that no law was broken unless I had given them money and they had not provided the promised service. I didn't have 25K in between the couch cushions or anywhere else, so that one ended.

The last one that came to me was from a person who said they were a "dowser" but yet somehow they could "see" that a missing woman (a case we work) was being held captive in a shed somewhere. Mind you, this woman has been missing since 1986!

The "fun" never ends it seems. These people come out of the woodwork when there is a missing person.

Kelly
 
KellyJ, I'm very very sorry for your situation and wish you only the best.

You come across as the perfect person to take this challenge on.

And regarding being unable to afford the TAM trip, I think that can be taken care of.

I personally have not been able to make the meetings due to scheduling issues, but every year there is an "Scholarship Fund" to help out worthy people who would attend but cannot because of finances. This year it paid the expenses of quite a few.

Mark it on your schedule and keep in touch. The worst case is you end up not going; the likely case is that you do. And if you feel like it, a presentation would not be amiss.

Edited to add: I take it you are in touch with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children? They have a statement on psychics never solving a missing child case. They have other resources, too, which you may be interested in. Google NCMEC. Though I'm sure you already know this.
 
I like this statement from the Klaas Kids Foundation - it reads as though Mark Klaas wrote it. He is a high-profile person and more than skeptical, as he was very angry about how one skeptic tried to use his daughter's murder for her own fame, so I wonder if he would give an interview to you sometime? He was featured on a Penn&Teller episode about ESP, also, and his part is the featured clip on the web page for that episode.

I wish you all the best and I really would like to applaud your efforts in spreading some debunking in this area.
 
Marc Klaas...good find. I have never met him personally, but I am friends with his right hand man. Our orgs work together now and then. I am quite sure he would participate. I did not remember that he took this stance.

I will have to look at the meeting info and place and see if I could fit it in. How does a person go about getting this scholarship?

Thanks to all,
Kelly
 
CurtC said:
I clicked this link, thinking it sounded interesting. Imagine my surprise when I saw that it's my own letter I wrote to ABC!
Click to expand...

No way! Rock on!

Kelly, right now, I'm not terribly impressed with the results from this new database. I do have a pdf I got from it with an article about Psychic Detectives (the show) from Skeptic. So far, most of my results are from that and Skeptical Inquirer. I'd like to be able to offer you something a bit more... mainstream, I guess is the word. That way, when people read your post they don't dismiss it out of hand because, "Oh well, they're those bitter skeptics." or whatever.

I should have my Lexis-Nexis access back since the semester's started up again, I'll try and hit there tomorrow. If you'd like the cites for the articles for now, though (I'm not sure on the copyright issues here), let me know.
 
That is neat, Curt.

No rush on the research, LA. I probably won't start my series for several weeks yet.

I'll take the sites, yes.

I think no matter how I write my series, there will be plenty of people who take offense to it. ("Oh my precious Sylvia" types)
 
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