Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire IV

P.J. Denyer said:
Yes, I get that, but what I'm asking is do you manually start the engine in a hybrid? I assume you don't. Getting in the car and pulling away without specifically starting the engine via the ignition key or a start button would be a difference between an ICE vehicle and a hybrid or EV that no-one is going to miss.

[qimg]https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_27172670968525c4d5.jpg[/qimg]
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I've never driven a hybrid, but all of the EVs I've driven have either a start button or you have to insert and turn a key (I'm guessing 'ignition key' wouldn't be the correct term), so I would guess hybrids are the same.
 
Craig4 said:
Yeah, it turns on like any other car. There's a computer that manages the engine. You don't switch between the two on most. I know some have an option to switch to EV after it's on but I don't think that's very common.
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Yeah, I get that it turns on, but on an ICE you specifically start the engine (and this is reflected on the rev counter), I'm guessing you don't on a hybrid and this would be immediately obvious to anyone driving the car. (The whole, it was converted to hybrid and the current owner doesn't know rubbish).
 
All the hybrids I've driven don't require (or even allow) explicit management of engine operation. Yes, you turn the car on and authenticate to it (i.e., present a key of some sort). But the car decides how to run the various pieces of the powerplant. You may initially get the electric motor, which works well at low RPMs. The ICE turns on and off by itself as needed. The notion that any hybrid would somehow drive in a way that a driver would mistake for a pure ICE is as absurd as saying that welding doesn't involve melting the material.

One thing that's common to all hybrids is instrumentation that tells you clearly that you're driving a hybrid, how well that innovative machinery is working to save you money, and how very satisfied you should feel about doing that. The Toyota Yaris, for example, has its own LCD display showing the schematic of the powerplant and which parts of it are active and doing all those great, energy-saving hybrid things. Unless you habitually hang your hat over that display, you're going to know for certain that you're driving a hybrid.
 
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JayUtah said:
The notion that any hybrid would somehow drive in a way that a driver would mistake for a pure ICE is as absurd as saying that welding doesn't involve melting the material.
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Perhaps Vixen assumes that the driver wouldn't have been able to tell the difference because she can't tell the difference.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
I'm guessing you don't on a hybrid and this would be immediately obvious to anyone driving the car. (The whole, it was converted to hybrid and the current owner doesn't know rubbish).
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The whole point of a hybrid—whether engineered that way to start with or converted later—is that the ICE won't be running when it isn't needed. If you're going down the street at 45 km/h and nothing is going, "Vrooom!" then you can't help but notice something is different about your car.

One thing about the end stages of a conspiracy theory is that the proposed actors in it have to be dumb as rocks to do what the theory says they must have done.
 
Mojo said:
Perhaps Vixen assumes that the driver wouldn't have been able to tell the difference because she can't tell the difference.
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You can fill a car park with things Vixen doesn't understand. But that aside, the car's powerplant type was verified by the fire services. We can start from the presumption that they aren't dumb as rocks and that they aren't lying when they say they confirmed it.
 
jimbob said:
As an aside, do hybrids use starter motors or do they rely on the drive motor(s) instead?
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Short answer: most designs use a drive motor to spin up the ICE.

A hybrid drive train that's both efficient and practical is not a simple design. The Toyota HSD is the most well-known example. It uses an ICE and two motor-generators operating through a planetary gearbox that blends the power supplied by each component. In that design, one of the motor-generators can operate in motor mode to spin up the ICE, and then switch to generator mode to provide electricity from ICE power.

A fire fighter prying open the hood of a burned-out hybrid is not going to see much there that would be mistaken for a pure ICE powerplant. And no, the fire won't blur the difference. Electric motors are necessarily made from very robust components that are easily identified even after a fire, especially by an experienced investigator.
 
zooterkin said:
I've never driven a hybrid, but all of the EVs I've driven have either a start button or you have to insert and turn a key (I'm guessing 'ignition key' wouldn't be the correct term), so I would guess hybrids are the same.
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Actually, not mine. Bum on seat, press brake, put into gear, off you go. I've had it 18 months and I'm still reaching for a non-existent ignition key. But we digress.
 
JayUtah said:
One thing that's common to all hybrids is instrumentation that tells you clearly that you're driving a hybrid, how well that innovative machinery is working to save you money, and how very satisfied you should feel about doing that. The Toyota Yaris, for example, has its own LCD display showing the schematic of the powerplant and which parts of it are active and doing all those great, energy-saving hybrid things. Unless you habitually hang your hat over that display, you're going to know for certain that you're driving a hybrid.
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That's what I noticed in that taxi. I was sitting in the back but the display was unmissable, constantly showing which powertrain was being employed. (Absolute waste of space if you ask me, and I mean hybrid cars, but again we digress.)
 
Rolfe said:
Actually, not mine. Bum on seat, press brake, put into gear, off you go. I've had it 18 months and I'm still reaching for a non-existent ignition key. But we digress.
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I’ve had my Tesla 3 LR for more than five years and I’ve pretty much forgotten about keys and starters. Just wander up, get in and drive.
 
malbui said:
I’ve had my Tesla 3 LR for more than five years and I’ve pretty much forgotten about keys and starters. Just wander up, get in and drive.
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Even if you don't need a key, or fob, for starting the vehicle they would still come in rather handy for locking/unlocking doors, opening hands free trunk/hatchback, playing music without starting the motor.
 
jimbob said:
There are quite a few good reasons for having the electric motor being the one for low speeds especially from a standstill or in stop start traffic.

You'd still need to turn an electric motor if using the internal combustion engine (the starter motor).

As an aside, do hybrids use starter motors or do they rely on the drive motor(s) instead?
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Mine has a complex GKN gearbox between the engine and the generator (and front wheels). (There's a lovely animation of it working here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rntjceP-XPE )

The engine is started by having power from the traction battery, supplied to the generator, which turns the engine over.

The result is instantaneous, if you touch one of the buttons ('Charge' or 'Save') that manually starts the engine, the engine goes 'vroom' immediately. There's no sound or sensation of cranking or delay. (It happens so fast, you don't even get to remove your finger from the button before the engine starts.)

Similarly, if I'm driving in traffic and accelerate beyond what the battery and drive motors can provide on their own, the engine instantly starts, with no cranking etc.
 
novaphile said:
There's no sound or sensation of cranking or delay.
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The joy of a powerful electric motor more-or-less directly coupled to the ICE. Typically how this is done is to use the motor to bring the spinny parts of the ICE up to speed with all the valves open (or open for longer to reduce compression) and no fuel or spark. Then at a certain speed, you engage the normal internal-combustion cycle and it's as if it's already at idle speed. And yes, this can happen in a second or less.
 
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