Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire IV

Vixen said:
As I said from the start, it is my opinion that the nature of the fire looks to me to be a lithium one.
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Based as it was on your years of training and experience in analysing fire characteristics including flame colour and smoke colour under artificial light in phone videos, we gave your opinion all due consideration alongside other information such as the people who might be in a position to know declaring it was a diesel car.

Given that some early 2014 Range Rover Sport diesel did have a lithium battery, which was on the passenger side (UK), I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a hybrid without the owner realising it, especially if bought secondhand.
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How likely do you suppose that to be, compared to any other possible scenario?



I notice you did not use the past tense there. "I wouldn't be surprised" rather than "I wouldn't have been surprised". Do you still cling to your opinion the car was a hybrid and the fire was a lithium battery fire?
 
Vixen said:
You need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.
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Everyone else but you understands the difference. Your opinion never matches the facts.

When the facts and evidence obviously contradict your opinion, you don't change your opinion. That's the problem.

You seem to have some deep seated inability to admit you are wrong.

That is why this thread has over 1100 posts. Because you could not admit you were wrong.

And lets face it, deep down, you still don't really think you are wrong, do you?
 
Vixen said:
It doesn't explain the original fire in Vehicle 1, it just seems to take for granted what the AA boffin said on Day One as to 'most likely cause being an electrical fault in the engine bay', and that is what they have glibly repeated.
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Since your motive in opening this whole thread was to speculate that the fire had started in an EV or hybrid, the exact cause doesn't need to be known in order to render that moot, if the vehicle is clearly identified as a diesel-engined car.
 
My experience of hybrids is limited to one taxi ride, but in that car it was obvious from the driver's display that it was a hybrid. That's what caught my eye. The display graphic showing whether the vehicle was on engine or electric motor power at any given moment.

I appreciate there are different types of hybrid and not all will have the same displays, but is it really possible for anyone to buy a diesel hybrid, and drive it, and not know this? I seriously doubt it. Don't hybrids have the word "hybrid" somewhere on the bodywork anyway? This is getting surreal.

I also have some doubts about this statement that this model of car was available as a hybrid in 2014, and I'm not just prepared to take Vixen's word for it.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Vixen said:
Given that some early 2014 Range Rover Sport diesel did have a lithium battery, which was on the passenger side (UK), I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a hybrid without the owner realising it, especially if bought secondhand.
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How likely do you suppose that to be, compared to any other possible scenario?
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How credible is it that someone could drive a vehicle without noticing that it was a hybrid rather than a plain diesel?
 
Rolfe said:
My experience of hybrids is limited to one taxi ride, but in that car it was obvious from the driver's display that it was a hybrid. That's what caught my eye. The display graphic showing whether the vehicle was on engine or electric motor power at any given moment.
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And doesn't the engine noise differ? I don't drive, but I've noticed that some of the buses I travel on don't always produce the expected sounds. For example, bus stops at bus stop, diesel engine noises die away, then bus pulls away without any increase in diesel engine noise. I'd assumed that these are hybrids.
 
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Rolfe said:
My experience of hybrids is limited to one taxi ride, but in that car it was obvious from the driver's display that it was a hybrid. That's what caught my eye. The display graphic showing whether the vehicle was on engine or electric motor power at any given moment.

I appreciate there are different types of hybrid and not all will have the same displays, but is it really possible for anyone to buy a diesel hybrid, and drive it, and not know this? I seriously doubt it. Don't hybrids have the word "hybrid" somewhere on the bodywork anyway? This is getting surreal.

I also have some doubts about this statement that this model of car was available as a hybrid in 2014, and I'm not just prepared to take Vixen's word for it.
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No, it's not possible to know that one drives a hybrid car.
The very fundamentals of the drive train of a hybrid car makes it extremely and immediately obvious.

So, if Vixen is not surprised that someone could own and drive a hybrid car without knowing it, means that she really, really does not know a thing about hybrid cars.

Unless Vixen uses an alternative meaning of the word hybrid of course.
One that, no doubt, was always used in whatever school she used to go to (and nowhere else).
 
Also, the proposition that someone could be sold a hybrid vehicle without being informed that it was a hybrid vehicle, is ludicrous. Registration documents would show it, and it would be necessary to tell the insurance company. And would any seller, whether private or motor trade, fail to mention the fact?

But mainly, I'm sure it's not possible to drive a car, let alone own it, without noticing that it's a hybrid. And what about servicing? Nobody is even mentioning the battery and the electric motor?

This is preposterous. Bordering on insane.
 
erwinl said:
So, if Vixen is not surprised that someone could own and drive a hybrid car without knowing it, means that she really, really does not know a thing about hybrid cars.
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I believe Vixen has told us that she owns a hybrid car. (Of course it is possible she only thinks it's a hybrid and in fact it's really just a conventional ICE car. Because that's plausible, right?)
 
Rolfe said:
... I also have some doubts about this statement that this model of car was available as a hybrid in 2014, and I'm not just prepared to take Vixen's word for it.
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Previous Googling indicated the HEV version did go into production during 2014 and if memory serves I managed to find one or two for sale, though I can't find any right now.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Based as it was on your years of training and experience in analysing fire characteristics including flame colour and smoke colour under artificial light in phone videos, we gave your opinion all due consideration alongside other information such as the people who might be in a position to know declaring it was a diesel car.


How likely do you suppose that to be, compared to any other possible scenario?



I notice you did not use the past tense there. "I wouldn't be surprised" rather than "I wouldn't have been surprised". Do you still cling to your opinion the car was a hybrid and the fire was a lithium battery fire?
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Perhaps I missed it but can you quote me where in the report it analyses how the engine became irrevocably unextinguishable apart from citing the original, 'highly likely it was electrical fault in the engine bay' quoted by the AA boff on Day One? It throws in the fact there were winds at 10 mph, useful information, together with direction, and how they had to change stairwell (in one case because it was locked??? from the outside and no-one had the key) but there is no real analysis and it just refers the reader to the cause of the Liverpool Fire.

In effect, the report is more about the operations, what they did step by step but no real analysis of the scientific causes that caused the ceilings to collapse, for example. To simply refer the reader to a 2018 report isn't adequate because the whole point of that report was to recommend improvements.
 
Rolfe said:
My experience of hybrids is limited to one taxi ride, but in that car it was obvious from the driver's display that it was a hybrid. That's what caught my eye. The display graphic showing whether the vehicle was on engine or electric motor power at any given moment.

I appreciate there are different types of hybrid and not all will have the same displays, but is it really possible for anyone to buy a diesel hybrid, and drive it, and not know this? I seriously doubt it. Don't hybrids have the word "hybrid" somewhere on the bodywork anyway? This is getting surreal.

I also have some doubts about this statement that this model of car was available as a hybrid in 2014, and I'm not just prepared to take Vixen's word for it.
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I have a hybrid and it is registered on Traficom as a 'petrol' car.
 
Rolfe said:
Also, the proposition that someone could be sold a hybrid vehicle without being informed that it was a hybrid vehicle, is ludicrous. Registration documents would show it, and it would be necessary to tell the insurance company. And would any seller, whether private or motor trade, fail to mention the fact?

But mainly, I'm sure it's not possible to drive a car, let alone own it, without noticing that it's a hybrid. And what about servicing? Nobody is even mentioning the battery and the electric motor?

This is preposterous. Bordering on insane.
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We are talking about 2014 not 2024.
 
Rolfe said:
Also, the proposition that someone could be sold a hybrid vehicle without being informed that it was a hybrid vehicle, is ludicrous. Registration documents would show it, and it would be necessary to tell the insurance company. And would any seller, whether private or motor trade, fail to mention the fact?

But mainly, I'm sure it's not possible to drive a car, let alone own it, without noticing that it's a hybrid. And what about servicing? Nobody is even mentioning the battery and the electric motor?

This is preposterous. Bordering on insane.
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I've owned two and you are correct; you could not drive a hybrid and not know it. The main reason is the thing tells you with a gauge what the status of the hybrid battery is and when you are on full ICE full battery or when you're using both. Also, at idle it's impossible to miss because it's only on battery (unless you are at idle a long time when the ICE kicks in which itself lets you know it's a hybrid).
 
It wasn't a hybrid. The initial and all subsequent reports, including this one, have confirmed it.

Don't play her stupid games.

It wasn't a hybrid.

There is only one person keeping this thread going.
 
Vixen said:
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a hybrid without the owner realising it, especially if bought secondhand.
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No. You are incorrect. You think this because you have no idea what you are talking about. You're just wrong. You're wrong to think you could own a hybrid and not know it.

https://www.carpixel.net/w/8b267ffe...0e6/range-rover-hybrid-wallpaper-hd-47758.jpg

The ******* thing says "Hybrid" on the back. What, are you hard of reading? it took less than a minute to find a 2014 Range Rover hybrid with a picture of the thing on the back that says hybrid. As if anyone who could walk around in public unescorted would need to be told they were looking at the gauge console of a hybrid what with all the ******* gauges there that tell you it's a hybrid. Jesus, why is this hard for you to grasp? It's so bleeding obvious.
 
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