Cont: 2024 Election Thread part 3

[jt512]

Donnie saying it he were President the Iranina missile attack on Israel never would have happened.
Sure, Donnie, sure......

That is not that unreasonable claim. Man foreign affairs experts have said that the Biden administration has been a failure at deterrence, and that Trump—maybe, n part, because he was unpredictable—was successful in that area.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Aside from how ridiculously crazy that idea is, wow did he look tired and defeated in that video. He just came off like he didn't want to be there and was only going through the motions.

At times it sounded like he was talking to an empty room.
No response from the audience for minutes on end.
I think the fans are getting tired of it.

 

[lionking]

That is not that unreasonable claim. Man foreign affairs experts have said that the Biden administration has been a failure at deterrence, and that Trump—maybe, n part, because he was unpredictable—was successful in that area.

What you are ignoring is that Putin is not a friend of Israel. All it needs is for him to whisper in Trump’s ear to stop supporting Israel, and it’s likely he will.

 

[jt512]

What you are ignoring is that Putin is not a friend of Israel. All it needs is for him to whisper in Trump’s ear to stop supporting Israel, and it’s likely he will.

That's speculative. If Putin has that much control over Trump, why did Putin not block the Abraham Accords and the assassination of Qasem Soleimani, and why did he not invade Ukraine while Trump was in office?

 

[Andy_Ross]

That's speculative. If Putin has that much control over Trump, why did Putin not block the Abraham Accords and the assassination of Qasem Soleimani, and why did he not invade Ukraine while Trump was in office?

What do you think Trump would have done if Russia had invaded Ukraine while he was president?

 

[jt512]

What do you think Trump would have done if Russia had invaded Ukraine while he was president?

The point is that Putin didn't invade Ukraine while Trump was president, probably because he didn't know what Trump would do.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The point is that Putin didn't invade Ukraine while Trump was president, probably because he didn't know what Trump would do.

He didn't invade a lot of places when there were a lot of presidents.

What point do you think you are making?

Nice dodge by the way.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

russia didn't leave Ukraine under trump, even though the US position was that russia occupied the eastern territories illegally.
Guess Putin wasn't scared enough of Trump to withdraw; or maybe he had reason to assume that Trump would be all for it.

 

[jt512]

He didn't invade a lot of places when there were a lot of presidents.

What point do you think you are making?

The same point you are making, apparently: that Putin chose the Biden presidency, the one that I said was widely viewed as weak on deterrence, to invade Ukraine.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Donald's on about executing babies again

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
EVERYONE KNOWS I WOULD NOT SUPPORT A FEDERAL ABORTION BAN, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, AND WOULD, IN FACT, VETO IT, BECAUSE IT IS UP TO THE STATES TO DECIDE BASED ON THE WILL OF THEIR VOTERS (THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!). LIKE RONALD REAGAN BEFORE ME, I FULLY SUPPORT THE THREE EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE, INCEST, AND THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER. I DO NOT SUPPORT THE DEMOCRATS RADICAL POSITION OF LATE TERM ABORTION LIKE, AS AN EXAMPLE, IN THE 7TH, 8TH, OR 9TH MONTH OR, IN CASE THERE IS ANY QUESTION, THE POSSIBILITY OF EXECUTION OF THE BABY AFTER BIRTH. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER!

 

[Andy_Ross]

The same point you are making, apparently: that Putin chose the Biden presidency, the one that I said was widely viewed as weak on deterrence, to invade Ukraine.

I asked what you think Donald would have done if the invasion happened while he was president?

What made him a deterrent to Putin?

Donald was all for pulling US troops out of Europe and scrapping NATO. How would that make him look strong to Putin?

 

[Mike!]

It is possible Putin was planning on invading, when he invaded, no matter who was President was ( But he was counting on it being Trump ) and decided the results would essentially be the same in the end, the quick, easy conquest and occupation of Ukraine.

Of course that wasn't what happened, but it doesn't change what he believed at the time.

Trump would just let him do it, after all, that bastard Zelensky wouldn't play ball with him, and ended up getting him impeached. A can't lose strategy from Putin's perspective.
Or
Biden was too much of a bumbling fool to be able to help unite and mount a supply line allowing a counteroffensive in favor of Ukraine. And yet he could and did. Putin never saw that coming.

Putin's plans had other major flaws that went in Ukraine's favor as well. The obvious results of surrounding himself with people willing to only tell him what he wanted to hear.

 

[jt512]

Donald's on about executing babies again

For ****'s sake. What he said is that he would veto a federal abortion ban, that he is opposed to third-trimester abortions, but that he supports exceptions for cases of rape, incest, or threat to the life of the mother. And what you focus on is that he said "in case there are any questions, [he opposes] the possibility of the execution of the baby after birth." Anybody would oppose that!

 

[jt512]

I asked what you think Donald would have done if the invasion happened while he was president?

And I responded that Putin likely (according to people who have a lot more expertise than I do) did not attack Ukraine while Trump was president because Putin himself did not know how Trump would respond. So to ask me how I think Trump would have responded is contrary to the point. It is Trump's very unpredictability that prevented Putin from acting.

 

[JoeMorgue]

For ****'s sake. What he said is that he would veto a federal abortion ban, that he is opposed to third-trimester abortions, but that he supports exceptions for cases of rape, incest, or threat to the life of the mother. And what you focus on is that he said "in case there are any questions, [he opposes] the possibility of the execution of the baby after birth." Anybody would oppose that!

.... executing babies after birth is already illegal.

This is one of the prime Republican tactics. Making a big showy deal out of opposing stuff THAT NEVER HAPPENS as a way to make their stupid idiot followers think it happens.

No sane people don't fall under "Anybody would oppose that" because sane people know it doesn't happen.

Trump doesn't oppose killing babies after birth and calling it abortion, he's spreading a lie to his followers that that is actually a thing that happens and needs to be "opposed."

The whole faux-shocked "Well are you saying you wouldn't oppose this terrible thing I just made up that never happens?" routine isn't an honest way to frame the discourse.

 

[newyorkguy]

...Putin's plans had other major flaws that went in Ukraine's favor as well. The obvious results of surrounding himself with people willing to only tell him what he wanted to hear.

Sounds a lot like some one else.

 

[turingtest]

.... executing babies after birth is already illegal.

This is one of the prime Republican tactics. Making a big showy deal out of opposing stuff THAT NEVER HAPPENS as a way to make their stupid idiot followers think it happens.

No sane people don't fall under "Anybody would oppose that" because sane people know it doesn't happen.

Trump doesn't oppose killing babies after birth and calling it abortion, he's spreading a lie to his followers that that is actually a thing that happens and needs to be "opposed."

The whole faux-shocked "Well are you saying you wouldn't oppose this terrible thing I just made up that never happens?" routine isn't an honest way to frame the discourse.

There's also a certain amount of dishonesty in pretending that that Trump tweet is one he made in a vacuum, and "gosh, Trump is just saying something that everyone agrees with!" In February 2019 (Politifact) he claimed that "The Democrat position on abortion is now so extreme that they don’t mind executing babies AFTER birth." And during his debate with Harris (CBS News), he said ""Her vice presidential pick says abortion in the ninth month is absolutely fine. He also says execution after birth — it's execution, no longer abortion, because the baby is born — is OK."

The problem with this "what's the big deal about what Trump said?" framing is that it's not all that he's said- it's not just that Trump opposes what everyone does and that never happens anyway, it's that he lies and says Democrats support it. The dishonesty is in pretending that Trump has never accused Democrats of holding a position they've never held. You cannot honestly say "well, everyone opposes that!" in support of a liar who says Democrats don't.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The problem with this "what's the big deal about what Trump said?" framing is that it's not all that he's said- it's not just that Trump opposes what everyone does and that never happens anyway, it's that he lies and says Democrats support it. The dishonesty is in pretending that Trump has never accused Democrats of holding a position they've never held. You cannot honestly say "well, everyone opposes that!" in support of a liar who says Democrats don't.

Yep. And one of the most toxic demands of the proudly wrong in modern discourse is their demanding that everything they say only be judged in a vacuum, without context or "being minimally observant and having at least the pattern recognition of a goldfish."

This "No I demand you stop the discussion and acknowledge that what I said was correct if you ignore everything I said before and after" routine has gotten old.

Look at it this way. (G)You are in a long and happy marriage. Everyday you wake up, kiss your spouse good morning, have a happy breakfast with them, and as they leave to go to work they give you one last kiss, look you lovely in the eyes and say "I love you" before walking out the door.

This goes on for days, weeks, months, years, decades until one day you wake up, kiss your spouse good morning, have a happy breakfast with them, and as they leave to go to work they give you one last kiss, look you lovely in the eyes and say "Today, I will not cheat on you with my secretary" before walking out the door.

Are you now more or less convinced that they haven't been sleeping with the secretary?

Proudly wrong insane troll logic would be to go "Well you never even considered the possibility that they might be cheating and they just reassured you they aren't, obviously you should be even MORE convinced they aren't cheating on you!"

 

[alfaniner]

Jim Acosta (CNN) just shut down Corey Lewandowski for intentionally misprouncing "Kamala", with a slight insult as well. I'd like to see that more often.

 

[Tero]

If Rasmussen, a very biased has PA as a tie, Kamala must be wiining. Same with Fox.