Posts like this say more about you than those you are directing it at. Calling someone a bigot for not bowing to all demands from trans activists is laughable.
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"Misgendering" is now a federal offense
- Thread starter jt512
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Posts like this say more about you than those you are directing it at. Calling someone a bigot for not bowing to all demands from trans activists is laughable.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Thank you.
Not irrelevant. Both you and smartcooky were quibbling with the description of these sources as far-right. I pointed out that Rebel News absolutely does fit that description. That's entirely relevant.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
And language hasn't changed at all since 1982.
Last night was lit! My fam and I went to this new café that was totally boujee. The food was bussin’, and we were all so amped. My friend tried to ghost us, but we caught him and said, “No cap, you’re staying!” We ended the night with a big yikes moment when someone spilled their drink, but overall, it was a vibe.
ETA: Yeah I should probably read the rest of the thread before I decide to snark again, as this point has been made by others.
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angrysoba
Philosophile
And language hasn't changed at all since 1982.
Last night was lit! My fam and I went to this new café that was totally boujee. The food was bussin’, and we were all so amped. My friend tried to ghost us, but we caught him and said, “No cap, you’re staying!” We ended the night with a big yikes moment when someone spilled their drink, but overall, it was a vibe.
ETA: Yeah I should probably read the rest of the thread before I decide to snark again, as this point has been made by others.
Smartcooky’s arguments are clearly terrible. His arguments from linguistics don’t work because he reliably gets things wrong.
That said, I think there is a better argument to be made that these rules are pretty awful. The idea that it is wrong merely to mock the policy itself is extremely authoritarian and on those grounds alone should be rejected regardless of the policy.
The transgender debate is clearly one where there will be no satisfactory outcome. At one extreme, one group calls for complete self-ID which is completely unacceptable to female athletes and in sex-segregated spaces. This should be clear to almost anyone, and trying to legislate it away through coercive policies is rightly going to cause resentment. Sorry arth, but you seem to be on that side and seem to put your fingers in your ears when these reasonable concerns are pointed out.
On the other hand, we definitely do have true bigots who will refuse to recognize that, for whatever reason, some people feel they were born in the body of the opposite sex. My stance is that we should be far more understanding as a society of them, even if we have to say no to some demands such as to be allowed to join the female powerlifting team. Even you, arth, accept it would be cheating to do that, although you seemed to be confused as to why it was cheating.
As for smartcooky, it seems he is in a strange no-man’s land where he reserves the right to call people “ideologically captured trans activists” on one thread and “anti-trans transphobic bigots” on another with nothing but an arbitrary fig leaf to cover his confusion. Some people, it seems, believe that the strength of their arguments is based not on logic, reason and coherence, but on the vehemence of their rhetoric. Though I have no doubt he won’t give a “fat rat’s arse” about that.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
And language hasn't changed at all since 1982.
Last night was lit! My fam and I went to this new café that was totally boujee. The food was bussin’, and we were all so amped. My friend tried to ghost us, but we caught him and said, “No cap, you’re staying!” We ended the night with a big yikes moment when someone spilled their drink, but overall, it was a vibe.
ETA: Yeah I should probably read the rest of the thread before I decide to snark again, as this point has been made by others.
Yes, this irrelevant red herring point was also made by others. We're not talking about the natural drift of language over time. We're talking about authorities trying to mandate Correct Speech by fiat. And by appeal to government regulations. And by implication of adverse consequences if the authority's mandate is not obeyed. That's police state nonsense. It's literally the opposite of the kind of healthful transformation of language over time that you and others keep trying to distract us with.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
No, it's nothing like that. Nobody's forcing you to do jack ****. No matter what the OP claims, misgendering someone is not a federal offense.
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arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
That's largely because, as I have said before, I don't believe that these concerns are as reasonable as they are being made out to be. Take a look at theprestige just above. He's equating referring to people by their gender with police state tyranny. That's not reasonable.
I think that sports like powerlifting should be segregated by capability, not by gender. If that means that a heavyweight woman competes against a lightweight man, that's okay by me. A lightweight man wouldn't be able to compete against a heavyweight man anyway. They're in a different category. But I am far from being an expert in the sportses so my opinion here is utterly irrelevant.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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No he isn't. He's equating compelled speech with police state tyranny. He didn't object to people choosing to refer to someone by that person's preferred pronoun when that choice isn't made under threat. It's the threat that's the problem, not the choice.
angrysoba
Philosophile
It's one thing to accurately observe that language changes over time. It is not accurate to say that coercive forms of language change - i.e aggressively prescriptivist diktats, which themselves cannot be mocked, are the same as observable language changes.
Nobody was enforcing the Great Vowel Shift on pain of punishment.
I don't know how to make sense of this. I'm not sure how you could make sense of it, but I suspect it is not your concern to create anything workable.
Sex-segregation and weight-segregation are already proxies for segregating by capability.
What you are effectively going to do is relegate the top women powerlifters to having to compete with mediocre male powerlifters, which is exactly what women athletes are agaist.
The fact that you may shrug at the outcome is also the problem here.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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According to the Holyoke administration, it is. How is their interpretation of Title IX wrong?
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
What's the punishment here?
I shrug because I'm not interested and I don't care. Also because as I said my opinion in this field is and should be irrelevant. It's not a hill I will die on. You say it's a bad idea, sure. You probably know better than I do. I'll fight different battles.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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The best of the heaviest category female powerlifters can compete against the best of the lightest category male powerlifters. But lightweight female powerlifters cannot compete against any weight male powerlifters. Having a partial overlap could be "fair", but it would be weird and kinda pointless.
I find it hard to accept both that you're not interested and don't care and that you have considered these concerns enough to determine that they are not as reasonable as they are being made out to be. When angrysoba mentioned one such concern and that your solution wouldn't work, you just reply that you don't care, which seems counter to that idea that we shouldn't be concerned.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
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Investigation by the school administration (which is a punishment in and of itself), along with possible academic sanctions up to and including expulsion.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
You're conflating two different parts of my statement.
I'm not interested and don't care about sports. My opinions on sports should be discounted.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Same as breaching other school codes, right? So why is nobody complaining about them?
Sports were one of the concerns under discussion, so I'm not conflating your comments:
angrysoba said:
? because they are justifiable? Your claim was that there is no punishment. There is. This response seems to completely miss the thread of discussion.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Exactly.
angrysoba
Philosophile
It's a fundamental area where there is a huge disagreement about how to ensure fairness. The other area is sex-segregated spaces such as saunas, changing rooms etc...
I already said that you shrugged and put your fingers in your ears over this, and you are essentially agreeing by saying you are not interested and don't care about the issues.
Don't you see how your studied ignorance of these things are not doing your side any favours?
If you asked people, "What do you think about misgendering people?" and other people shrugged and they said, "I don't care and I'm not interested in transgender stuff so I just call 'em like I see 'em." you might not think that such insouciance is a laudable position, don't you think?
Yet when some of the corrolaries of your position are pointed out, you indeed wave your hands, shrug your shoulders and insist that you don't want to consider that very much. I don't think that is a laudable position either.
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