"Misgendering" is now a federal offense

[Ziggurat]

Fair point. But what I'm seeing here, as you yourself pointed out upthread, is that it's maybe not fair to assume the best/worst motives here.

Regardless of what their actual motives are, I want the rules to work even when the people enforcing them have bad motives. I don't want rules that only work with the best of intentions. These ones don't work if their intentions aren't the best. They have a very obvious failure mechanism, and we should not tolerate that.

Plus, there's another bad incentive structure that they create here which I didn't touch on in my prior response, independent of any motives from the administration. Faculty don't want to have to report incidents (it's extra work), but they also don't want to not report incidents that occur because they could get in trouble for that. So they're going to have an incentive to create an environment where incidents don't happen at all, so that they don't have to report anything. Which sounds good when it comes to things we want to suppress, right? I'd like professors to create an environment where sexual harassment doesn't happen, for example.

But it's not so good when it comes to things we shouldn't be trying to suppress. We shouldn't be trying to suppress criticism. But if we create an incentive structure where professors are encouraged to suppress criticism, then that's likely to happen. And that's not a good thing.

 

[Ziggurat]

Yes indeed, there are creative ways to criticize a policy without being offensive, which it appears the rule takes into account.

Does it? How?

 

[Donal]

Sure, calling someone them/his/her, what ever they want but the whole neo-pronoun thing, that just dumb and bullying to make me call you Xir or whatever.

Do you read this stuff before hitting "submit reply"?

Mostly I don't care,

And yet...

I do think its rude to not call folks what they want but its also everyone's right to be rude and there really shouldn't be a federal law mandating politeness.

No, but we can make harassment have consequences

But the actually bad bit, is highlighted. **** that ****, faculty are required to report folks for mocking policy? That is some 1984 authoritarian type stuff.

Misappropriating 1984 for suit your agenda is some next level ****

ETA, this also doesn't say anything about harassment which has already been addressed by Title IX. The way this is written you could get reported for misgendering, mispronouning or mocking university policy just once. Which is almost certainly going to happen to someone.

You understand that laws come in multiple parts that work in conjunction, right?

 

[Donal]

That's what they used to tell Jews and black people who were trying to get into colleges that discriminated. "If you don't like their policies just go somewhere else".

your acceptance of discrimination and violation of civil rights is in very interesting company.

Wow, that's Tim Pool levels of missing it.

WHO IN THE LIVING **** IS BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST?

 

[Donal]

How expensive is the damage if people don't want to call a biological male "she/her", just identify them by their official name. Its easy to do.

You cant be forced to use a pronoun rather than a person's official name.

How expensive is it not to be an *******?

 

[Thermal]

<Recommend editing the above while you have the window open>

Eta: well done.

 

[plague311]

They don't have to get rid of the whole policy just the part where students and faculty can be punished simply for mocking a policy, not actually mocking a student. That clearly violates the first amendment. Really ****** up how you guys are okay with such a thing.

Whatever happened to "I strongly oppose what you were saying but I will die to defend your right to say it"????

I never said that, so whatever happened to it is beyond my ability to give a flying ****. Does that work? They don't have to get rid of any of the policy, it's their policy.

The college receives federal funds. My money is going to this college. It's that simple. I have to fund it, someone is forcing me to, even though no one invited me to. The least I can ask is that constitutional rights be upheld by any institution that receives taxpayer dollars.

This is getting ******* dumber and dumber.

Let me pose a hypothetical. At a public school a child says out loud to the entire classroom, "The rule about not swearing is stupid, childish and I should be able to swear whenever I want to, free speech dammit!" Would that kid get sent to the principals office? Would they get reported? Would it be an issue? After all, "Mah tAcKS DoLLarz" and all. Is that ok or are you and your ilk butthurt about that as well?

That's what they used to tell Jews and black people who were trying to get into colleges that discriminated. "If you don't like their policies just go somewhere else".

your acceptance of discrimination and violation of civil rights is in very interesting company.

pfffhahahahahahahahaha well, it's not the dumbest thing I've read today.

How expensive is the damage if people don't want to call a biological male "she/her", just identify them by their official name. Its easy to do.

You cant be forced to use a pronoun rather than a person's official name.

That's been my ******* point the whole God damn time buddy. Did you read the thread?

Also, are you up for this bet or what?

 

[plague311]

<Recommend editing the above while you have the window open>

Why? What's wrong with it?

 

[Thermal]

Why? What's wrong with it?

Not in the slightest bit surprising that you don't see the difference between honest argumentation and 0/12.

 

[Hercules56]

Wow, that's Tim Pool levels of missing it.

WHO IN THE LIVING **** IS BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST?

Violation of civil rights. The 1st Amendment.

 

[plague311]

Not in the slightest bit surprising that you don't see the difference between honest argumentation and 0/12.

Feel free to report anything I say or do. That's not a rule 12. Perhaps we're reading it differently but I see it as a simple rebuttal. But you've whined and cried about my posting style before, good to see you're consistent at least.

 

[Hercules56]

I never said that, so whatever happened to it is beyond my ability to give a flying ****. Does that work? They don't have to get rid of any of the policy, it's their policy.



This is getting ******* dumber and dumber.

Let me pose a hypothetical. At a public school a child says out loud to the entire classroom, "The rule about not swearing is stupid, childish and I should be able to swear whenever I want to, free speech dammit!" Would that kid get sent to the principals office? Would they get reported? Would it be an issue? After all, "Mah tAcKS DoLLarz" and all. Is that ok or are you and your ilk butthurt about that as well or what?

Don't forget this whole issue is about biological males getting butthurt over being called "he/him/sir".

 

[plague311]

Violation of civil rights. The 1st Amendment.

Tell me you don't know what the 1st Amendment or violation of civil rights means without actually saying it.

 

[plague311]

Don't forget this whole issue is about biological males getting butthurt over being called "he/him/sir".

Really? You got a source for that? I'm not seeing that in the OP. It seems like no biological males had input and this came from an all female college. I'm sure you're not just making **** up out of nowhere though so I'll patiently wait for your link to a biological male complaining, and that triggering this action. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ziggurat]

Let me pose a hypothetical. At a public school a child says

Are college students children? I mean, the ones who are 18 years old or older (which are the vast majority). Are they children? Should we treat them as children?

out loud to the entire classroom

Should we restrict conduct outside the classroom the same way we restrict conduct inside the classroom? Or is there perhaps a difference? From what I can tell, the policy under consideration here is not restricted to the classroom. I believe it applies even in a student's own dorm room.

 

[Thermal]

Feel free to report anything I say or do. That's not a rule 12. Perhaps we're reading it differently but I see it as a simple rebuttal. But you've whined and cried about my posting style before, good to see you're consistent at least.

Um, it had nothing to do with you. It was Donal's post being referred to. And pointing out a childish posting style is not "whining and crying".

 

[plague311]

Are college students children? I mean, the ones who are 18 years old or older (which are the vast majority). Are they children? Should we treat them as children?

Makes no difference to the point I was making. Swap child for senior in high school. Does it change anything? theprestige was complaining about his tax dollars being spent and therefor the college should have to allow everything based on the 1st Amendment. Do you agree or disagree that entities, even places that receive federal dollars, can limit things beyond what's required by law? I literally work for a small government and if I were to stand up and start complaining about policies here I would face reprimand. So, switch the comparison to that. What now?

Are college students children? Should we restrict conduct outside the classroom the same way we restrict conduct inside the classroom?

You mean like wet and dry campuses? Or the limits placed on athletes, or the limits placed on students already that can get them kicked off for saying or doing things even outside of classroom and off campus? Like that you mean?

Or is there perhaps a difference? From what I can tell, the policy under consideration here is not restricted to the classroom. I believe it applies even in a student's own dorm room.

It would be a campus policy, yes. I believe that is correct.

 

[plague311]

Um, it had nothing to do with you. It was Donal's post being referred to. And pointing out a childish posting style is not "whining and crying".

It didn't have anything to do with me until you specifically said "I understand why you don't have a problem with it" and then it was about me.

I also don't have a childish posting style, I have an aggressive posting style and I don't suffer bull ****.

It's the exact definition of whining and crying.

 

[ahhell]

The college receives federal funds. My money is going to this college. It's that simple. I have to fund it, someone is forcing me to, even though no one invited me to. The least I can ask is that constitutional rights be upheld by any institution that receives taxpayer dollars.

You are mistaken. From the OP:



Note that the college wants to prohibit mocking its policy. Even when no individuals are harassed, mocking a thing (not a person) is not allowed.

Or perhaps just act on the most egregious offenders. Like, instead of having a student or faculty member constantly trash talking trans people or what have you, but nothing happens to them.



Fair point. But what I'm seeing here, as you yourself pointed out upthread, is that it's maybe not fair to assume the best/worst motives here.

Care to make a wager? You pick the terms, I don't care what they are. I will say the college won't have to change anything at all.



Then don't go to this college. It's that simple. You don't have to, no one is forcing you to, and no one is even inviting you. I don't like what goes on at bath and body works, guess what I do? I just don't go there. (Some comedian said that).

I don't understand the sea of butthurt over a policy that doesn't affect any of you and never will. Ever.

There seems to be a common misunderstanding in this thread. This policy effects every college in the US that accepts any federal money, which to my knowledge means there is one college in the US that is not impacted by this.

So, good luck finding another school to go to if you don't want to be reported for getting someone's pronoun wrong or mocking the schools policy.

 

[theprestige]

There seems to be a common misunderstanding in this thread. This policy effects every college in the US that accepts any federal money, which to my knowledge means there is one college in the US that is not impacted by this.

So, good luck finding another school to go to if you don't want to be reported for getting someone's pronoun wrong or mocking the schools policy.

As I understand it, only a few schools have taken the step of extending their interpretation of Title IX obligations to include dissenting speech on this particular topic.