Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

That was one of the many posts she's made. There was also this:


Curious that you missed this, given that the text you quote follows directly after this text. Are you also fine with doxxing people?

Curious that you didn't answer Matthew's question.

Please link to the actual doxxing of Mr Hayden or, failing that, evidence other than a biased VICE article. For example, a direct quote from the police accusing Farrow of doxxing and threatening arson against Mr Hayden. Hitchens' Razor an all that!
 
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It will be hard to find a more canonical example of a professional guild being fully captured by an ideology.


The American Psychological Association, the American Physical Society, the American Chemical Society, and the American Mathematical Society have all gone deeply down the woke rabbit hole.
 
I still can't get my head round why this has happened. Particularly to biological and medical organisations. I know all the reasons put forward, the Denton playbook and all the rest, but given the sheer scale of this I can't understand why there aren't more people pointing out that the Emperor is stark naked (and we can all see what sex he is without any doubt at all).

How have so many people been brought to the point where they will turn viciously on any of their colleagues or friends who have the temerity to point out the obvious truths that none of them even questioned about ten minutes ago? I'd be genuinely interested if someone who has been captured would simply explain why they've changed their mind about such fundamental issues, and why they're so ready to pour the vitriol on anyone who disagrees. But all I've uncovered are people who are obviously taking a position for political advancement, and people who get so angry discussing it that it's a waste of time to ask.
 
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Curious that you didn't answer Matthew's question.

Not really. He posted while I was writing my post, so I didn't see it.

Please link to the actual doxxing of Mr Hayden or, failing that, evidence other than a biased VICE article. For example, a direct quote from the police accusing Farrow of doxxing and threatening arson against Mr Hayden. Hitchens' Razor an all that!

Actually, it's your turn. Please indicate your grounds for disputing the accuracy of the Vice article, and show how that site is factually untrustworthy. You're making a great number of unfounded claims, and ignoring many of my questions to you.
 
Not really. He posted while I was writing my post, so I didn't see it.

you don't have that excuse now.

Actually, it's your turn. Please indicate your grounds for disputing the accuracy of the Vice article, and show how that site is factually untrustworthy. You're making a great number of unfounded claims, and ignoring many of my questions to you.

I dispute it because it is at variance with statements made by the actual person who was there and experienced what she experienced first hand.

The VICE article does not quote anything relevant from anyone.

VICE is also little more than second-rate far left gutter press, with second rate journalists and pretty much not a source of news in my book.
 
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So the arrest of Farrow happened almost 2 years ago. What's happened in the case since then? I can find a bunch of stories about a 2019 civil case between Farrow and Hayden, but nothing about what happened between them since Oct. 2022.
 
So the arrest of Farrow happened almost 2 years ago. What's happened in the case since then? I can find a bunch of stories about a 2019 civil case between Farrow and Hayden, but nothing about what happened between them since Oct. 2022.


In April 2023, Police tried to break into the rectory to arrest her again. She was in the shower.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4794032-caroline-f-new-arrest-harassment

Appreciate help. Husband not here. I am in shower: heard door being broken & rattled. Put towel on. Went there. 3 policemen. They are allowing me to finish shower and get ready. They tried to tell me I look like I have had my shower.

In October 2023, Police informed her that she will not be prosecuted
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4927308-good-news-from-caroline-farrow

I'm delighted to have received notification from the CPS via Surrey Police that following my arrest in October 2022 and then again in April 2023, I will not be prosecuted for either malicious communications or harassment.

The CPS consider that the evidential test has not been met.

I am however still being sued for "misuse of private information" and I am very well aware that the complainant will inevitably exercise their right to review the CPS decision so I will say no more, at this stage.

What really chaps my arse is that the Police and CPS could have ascertained all of this, and reached the conclusion they did without the need to harass and terrorize this woman. Two arrests and two lots of questioning under caution, and the confiscation of personal devices which were held for 17 months... and all because some butt-hurt man cosplaying as a women got triggered by some rude messages on Twitter, What a pathetic snowflake Hayden is. This is the stuff I would expect to see happening in a dictatorship.

Bastards the lot of them... the Police and Hayden.

However, what I am delighted to see from reading some of her more recent postings is that she is clearly not going to allow herself to be silenced either by the Surrey Police's intimidation tactics, or by that paedophile who continues to complain against her.


Also worth noting

In 2022, Mr Hayden filed a lawsuit against Farrow and Family Education Trust for libel over the Tweets for which Farrow was arrested the first time. The High Court threw it out with a summary judgement at a hearing - i.e. they did not allow it to proceed to trial

Report:https://www.wiggin.co.uk/insight/high-court-awards-summary-judgment-in-twitter-libel-case/

Judgement: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/KB/2023/950.html

Last month Farrow lodge a formal complaint against the Police for wrongful arrest and breach of the Equality Act.

https://x.com/CF_Farrow/status/1824369239525883993
 
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Hold on - what if I'm sceptical of your sources? All you've provided is a story in Vice News which didn't show anything that Farrow had actually done and was pretty much based on the word of Stephanie Hayden, a convicted paedophile.

How about you link to this doxxing and threats of arson you claim to be criticising?

I have provided my source, as evidence for my claim.
If you are claiming this source is lying or otherwise incorrect, then that is your claim, and so the burden of proof lies on you. Please state your grounds for disputing the Vice article, and provide some evidence to back that up.
 
you don't have that excuse now.

I have this thing called "a job". You may have heard of these things. It occupies a significant part of my time.


I dispute it because it is at variance with statements made by the actual person who was there and experienced what she experienced first hand.

Such as?

The VICE article does not quote anything relevant from anyone.

VICE is also little more than second-rate far left gutter press, with second rate journalists and pretty much not a source of news in my book.

In other words, you don't like it because you don't like it, and have nothing f any substance to support that dislike with, other than it doesn't support your own ideas. Confirmation bias, then.
 
You have told me before that no-one, especially you, is interested in what I think, believe or say.
Why the sudden interest now?

I've told you that I'm not interested in what you have to say about a particular point that I consider to be tangential and a red herring. Of course I'm interested in what you have to say about points I consider central to the debate.

What parts of the reporting about Farrow do you suspect? What would it take to allay your suspicions?
 
I have provided my source, as evidence for my claim.
If you are claiming this source is lying or otherwise incorrect, then that is your claim, and so the burden of proof lies on you. Please state your grounds for disputing the Vice article, and provide some evidence to back that up.

You've provided your source, but it didn't include any evidence, just assertions. Therefore it can be rejected until actual evidence comes along. Till then it's just one person's word against another. I don't have any particular reason to believe Farrow, and my impression (it's no more than that) is that she is cantankerous and difficult. However, I have even less reason to believe Hayden, a convicted paedophile and vexatious litigant.

Unless you can give me some reason I should give the word of one more credence, I will reserve judgment until more, and better, evidence comes along.
 
For those of us not following along too closely, what are the major factual disputes between Farrow and Hayden?

Or, are we only talking about legal disputes? :p
 
For those of us not following along too closely, what are the major factual disputes between Farrow and Hayden?

Or, are we only talking about legal disputes? :p

Hayden is well known as a vexatious litigant. He has complained to Police or tried to sue at least 20 people over the last several years. He loses almost every time (or it least, I have found only one instance of him being successful).

It is abundantly clear that Hayden uses frivolous lawsuits to try to silence critics

https://grift.watch/stephanie-hayden/

When I attempted to speak to the defendants in the various legal claims that Hayden has issued over the years on the record, many refused, stating that Hayden is a “nightmare”, that Hayden has “overshadowed” their life for several years, and that they could do without the stress and worry given, in their view, Hayden’s “vexatious and malicious” litigation against them and the fear that Hayden would somehow re-enter their lives and attempt to litigate against them again. They would only give limited unattributed quotes about their experiences.

This person needs to be stopped. I am astonished that he has not been issued with a Civil Restraint Order.

Farrow and Hayden have been exchanging unpleasantries for several years. Hayden is a snowflake and he was butthurt and triggered because Farrow says he's not a woman. Hayden also accused Farrow of calling him a paedophile (which he is) and accused Farrow of doxxing him (apparently by posting an image of letter from his legal firm that had his business address in plain view) That post was removed within a few minutes, but Hayden must be so obsessed with Farrow that he has notifications come up every time Farrow posts something.

As for the doxxing this could have been a mistake (this seems likely as Farrow removed the tweet almost straight away). There is also an argument that this wasn't doxxing anyway, since Hayden is a lawyer, and his business address is already in the public square.

The Farrow case is not the first time that Hayden has managed to get the Police to do his bidding.

https://jonathanturley.org/2019/04/...-to-transgender-activist-by-her-prior-gender/

One case highlights how such speech codes have turned courts into micromanagers of manners and language used by citizens in public. It began with a mother, Kate Scottow, being arrested in front of her children for the crime of referring to a transgender woman as a man online. The alleged victim, transgender activist Stephanie Hayden, has now charged that she is being denied free speech after being accused of trolling on the Internet.

Three officers came to the house to take Scottow to the police station under suspicion of “deadnaming,” or using the prior name or gender of a transexual person.

But, but, but, gender critical speech is protected in the UK, isn't it? :p

The mother of an autistic ten-year-old daughter and 20-month-old son, Scottow was held for seven hours and her phone and computers were seized after a complaint by Stephanie Hayden. Hayden accused Scottow of a “campaign of targeted harassment” due to her ‘status as a transgender woman.” The basis was an exchange online where Scottow is accused of “toxic” and “defamatory” language, including referring to Hayden as a male in a debate over self-identification. Scottow insisted that she merely expressing her genuine belief that a person “cannot practically speaking change sex.” However, Deputy Judge Jason Coppel QC issued an injunction against her from making such statements, including “referencing [to Hayden’ as a man” or linking her to her “former male identity.”

Anyone still believe there aren't gender-ideology captured judges in the UK?

 
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I've told you that I'm not interested in what you have to say about a particular point that I consider to be tangential and a red herring. Of course I'm interested in what you have to say about points I consider central to the debate.

What parts of the reporting about Farrow do you suspect? What would it take to allay your suspicions?

If you were that interested in what I had to say, you could have read my previous comment:

I have grounds to question the accuracy of that story, because it omitted significant details, in an attempt to portray Farrow as a blameless innocent. They don't say what the posts were, they don't mention Kiwi Farms, and they don't mention the arson threat that the posts led to.
They also rely almost completely on Farrow's own account of the arrest, because the DM is ideologically motivated to take her word for it. This seems obviously problematic to me. She has a history of hate speech, for a start, and will of course protest her innocence. The Mail's coverage of this incident is entirely one-sided, and at no point do they question Farrow's account of it.
What part of the bland and uninformative police statement in the Mail article did you expect me to question? Or are you just being silly now?
Now, your turn.Do you have any grounds to question the factual accuracy of the Vice report, and the quotes from the police contained within it?
I'd also like to know if you're OK with doxxing leading to a credible threat to life, because that is what you are defending right now.

So, what I would like is a source that is not a well-known fount of right-wing bigotry, plagiarism and outright falsehoods. No doubt there's some special reason why that makes me stupid or unreasonable, but, whatever.
 
Can you clarify what you want to see?

As far as I can tell, you are asking for recent issues of police responses to alleged transphobia?

No, I'm not. I'm asking for sources for the two anecdotal stories that rolfe posted- sources she is adamantly refusing to provide, for reasons I can only guess at.
Accepting these second-hand anecdotes as entirely true, based on nothing but one person's say-so, does not look like scepticism to me, and yet several posters here have leapt onto these unsubstantiated claims and run with them.
Furthermore, it does, frankly, surprise me that people on this supposed sceptics' forum are criticising me for making requests for sources and evidence.

Actually, no, it doesn't. This place stopped being sceptical some time ago. :rolleyes:
 
You've provided your source, but it didn't include any evidence, just assertions. Therefore it can be rejected until actual evidence comes along. Till then it's just one person's word against another. I don't have any particular reason to believe Farrow, and my impression (it's no more than that) is that she is cantankerous and difficult. However, I have even less reason to believe Hayden, a convicted paedophile and vexatious litigant.

Unless you can give me some reason I should give the word of one more credence, I will reserve judgment until more, and better, evidence comes along.

You still haven't read the article carefully.
It says there that the Vice have seen a copy of the doxxing post in question. That has nothing to do with taking the word of either Farrow or Hayden for it. That's from the journalists. I have posted a link showing this source is factually reliable. If you think they are lying when they say they've seen an archived copy of this post, then you should explain why, and show some evidence.
 
Hayden is well known as a vexatious litigant. He has complained to Police or tried to sue at least 20 people over the last several years. He loses almost every time (or it least, I have found only one instance of him being successful).

It is abundantly clear that Hayden uses frivolous lawsuits to try to silence critics

https://grift.watch/stephanie-hayden/

When I attempted to speak to the defendants in the various legal claims that Hayden has issued over the years on the record, many refused, stating that Hayden is a “nightmare”, that Hayden has “overshadowed” their life for several years, and that they could do without the stress and worry given, in their view, Hayden’s “vexatious and malicious” litigation against them and the fear that Hayden would somehow re-enter their lives and attempt to litigate against them again. They would only give limited unattributed quotes about their experiences.

This person needs to be stopped. I am astonished that he has not been issued with a Civil Restraint Order.

Farrow and Hayden have been exchanging unpleasantries for several years. Hayden is a snowflake and he was butthurt and triggered because Farrow says he's not a woman. Hayden also accused Farrow of calling him a paedophile (which he is) and accused Farrow of doxxing him (apparently by posting an image of letter from his legal firm that had his business address in plain view) That post was removed within a few minutes, but Hayden must be so obsessed with Farrow that he has notifications come up every time Farrow posts something.

As for the doxxing this could have been a mistake (this seems likely as Farrow removed the tweet almost straight away). There is also an argument that this wasn't doxxing anyway, since Hayden is a lawyer, and his business address is already in the public square.

The Farrow case is not the first time that Hayden has managed to get the Police to do his bidding.

https://jonathanturley.org/2019/04/...-to-transgender-activist-by-her-prior-gender/

One case highlights how such speech codes have turned courts into micromanagers of manners and language used by citizens in public. It began with a mother, Kate Scottow, being arrested in front of her children for the crime of referring to a transgender woman as a man online. The alleged victim, transgender activist Stephanie Hayden, has now charged that she is being denied free speech after being accused of trolling on the Internet.

Three officers came to the house to take Scottow to the police station under suspicion of “deadnaming,” or using the prior name or gender of a transexual person.

But, but, but, gender critical speech is protected in the UK, isn't it? :p

The mother of an autistic ten-year-old daughter and 20-month-old son, Scottow was held for seven hours and her phone and computers were seized after a complaint by Stephanie Hayden. Hayden accused Scottow of a “campaign of targeted harassment” due to her ‘status as a transgender woman.” The basis was an exchange online where Scottow is accused of “toxic” and “defamatory” language, including referring to Hayden as a male in a debate over self-identification. Scottow insisted that she merely expressing her genuine belief that a person “cannot practically speaking change sex.” However, Deputy Judge Jason Coppel QC issued an injunction against her from making such statements, including “referencing [to Hayden’ as a man” or linking her to her “former male identity.”

Anyone still believe there aren't gender-ideology captured judges in the UK?


Re the highlighted. smartcooky, do you now accept that such a post was made? You can't have this both ways. If Harrow was guilty of doxxing, do you think it's OK to do that? I notice you claim the doxxing involved Hayden's business address. The article quotes Hayden as saying it was the home address that was leaked. Where did you get the information that is was, in fact, the business address?
I will point out, yet again, that Scottow's convition was overturned on appeal. Once again, you are quoting past incidents as if they reflect the present. They do not: none of the cases you have quoted have led to a successful prosecution. The tide is turning against the TRAs.
Your frankly childish and unrealistic demand that these incidents stop right now is, well, childish and unrealistic. How do you suggest stopping TRAs from launching vexatious litigation attempts? Would you like the police to ignore all reports of hate crimes? Rather than clinging to a nirvana fallacy, how about some practical proposals?
 
No, the likes of Rowling were not arrested because she dared them to arrest her. The powers that be knew exactly how much of a flash point this issue is, and the last thing they wanted was to turn a very well known, well liked and popular person into a rallying point.

And no one else was either.
 

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