Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Cosmic Yak: Do you have any grounds to question the factual accuracy of the Daily mail report, and the quotes from the police contained within it?

I have grounds to question the accuracy of that story, because it omitted significant details, in an attempt to portray Farrow as a blameless innocent. They don't say what the posts were, they don't mention Kiwi Farms, and they don't mention the arson threat that the posts led to.
They also rely almost completely on Farrow's own account of the arrest, because the DM is ideologically motivated to take her word for it. This seems obviously problematic to me. She has a history of hate speech, for a start, and will of course protest her innocence. The Mail's coverage of this incident is entirely one-sided, and at no point do they question Farrow's account of it.
What part of the bland and uninformative police statement in the Mail article did you expect me to question? Or are you just being silly now?
Now, your turn.Do you have any grounds to question the factual accuracy of the Vice report, and the quotes from the police contained within it?
I'd also like to know if you're OK with doxxing leading to a credible threat to life, because that is what you are defending right now.
 
Well, I wasn't, you plonker, and MY POST 510 CAME FIRST....

https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14396288&postcount=510

... and it was about Australia. It was a response to Cosmic Yak's post, NOT YOURS!! I wasn't talking to you!!!

You responded to MY post, with irrelevant stuff about the Cass review!
Learn to understand a ******* timeline, and learn to actually read and understand posts before you go off half-cocked in another of your typical knee-jerk responses!

What was the topic?

It is notable that the only references I can find to this case are from either right-wing sources such as GB News and the Daily Mail, or from Catholic/evangelist Christian ones. And the notorious Epoch Times. All are heavily biased. I have been unable to find any balanced reporting of this incident, which makes me a little suspicious. Most of it relies mainly on Farrow's own account.
Farrow was a member and regular poster on Kiwi Farms, a truly unpleasant website. It is quite possible that she did post things that crossed the line into hate speech: I have also not been able to find out what she said in the comments that prompted the complaint. Just saying that on a sceptics' forum, a nod in the direction of scepticism is merited once in a while.
As this case is 2 years old, and nothing seems to have happened, I assume she was released without charge. Again, before the screaming starts, this doesn't justify the police action per se, but it does reinforce my point that these attempts have failed every time. Again, it is my hope that this kind of situation will stop happening, once the police get their act together and stop overreacting to things that are not crimes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms



Have you got names or sources for these two stories?

This tends to happen when media is politically influenced and biased. Tell me how much "balanced reporting" you find about Joe Biden or Kamela Harris on Faux News, Newsmax etc (or for that matter, The Fat Orange Turd on MSNBC, or CNN).

Much of the media is captured by the gender-ideology cult - in Australia, the media, the Police and the judicial system are almost completely captured. Its getting that way here - and the UK is next. You aren't going to find much balanced reporting there because they aren't going to go against their editorial directives, and they certainly are not going to tell on themselves. You therefore, have to rely on whoever is willing to tell the story, but as you do so, keep in mind their bias and where their loyalty lies. VICE's loyalty lies with the left, the Flail's and the Sun's loyalty lies on the right.

But the whole issue here is with even allowing people to report what others say on Social media. A criminal investigator should not be involved unless what is posted is a direct or veiled threat of violence or death. Investigating Smith because he posted something that Jones was triggered by leading Jones to make a police complaint should not get past looking at what Smith posted. If it wasn't a threat of violence, incitement to violence or a death threat that should be the end of it.

For example, lets say Judy Jones is a transwoman and trans-rights activist. I get into an online spat with him.

I post "someone need to shoot that Judy Jones", or "I know where you live Judy Jones, so you need to watch your back", or "Jones, you'd better hope we never actually meet in person, because if we do, I'm going give you a hiding". If Jones were to make a Police complaint, then I would expect to be investigated for it.

However, if I were to post "Jones you're not a real woman" , or "Listen Jones, you're just another one of those trans-freaks with a dick between his legs trying to cosplay as a woman", then those could be vile, nasty things to say, but I should have a free speech right to say them. If Jones makes a Police complaint, the investigation should not go beyond the investigating officer looking at what I posted, and immediately closing the investigation with the conclusion that I have have not broken any laws and therefore have no case to a to answer. And yes, those words ARE protected speech in a legal sense, but in the real world, if I were living in the UK right now, I could be at least spoken to, and possibly arrested, questioned under caution and have my devices confiscated. No matter how I might ultimately be cleared of any charges, the mere threat of such actions chills (and therefore, infringes) my free speech rights. There needs to be both a procedural and an attitudinal change to the way police deal with complaints such as these... FIRST determine if the speech was protected speech, if it was, end of investigation; if it wasn't, only then should the investigation proceed. Unfortunately, these changes haven't been made.

Now, you repeatedly argue that these incidents will get less and less common over time. Sorry, that is not good enough. They are still happening, and they need to stop immediately - right now. The Commissioner of the Met needs to promulgate an order to all Police districts round the country, to not proceed with any investigation of anything posted about anyone on social media or in public fora that is a not a direct or veiled threat of violence, incitement to violence, intimidation or death.

The subject was about the UK. Just because you had some digression about Australia hardly means that I cannot correct your claims about the UK being "ideologically captured".
 
Well, I wasn't, you plonker, and MY POST 510 CAME FIRST....

https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14396288&postcount=510

... and it was about Australia. It was a response to Cosmic Yak's post, NOT YOURS!! I wasn't talking to you!!!

You responded to MY post, with irrelevant stuff about the Cass review!

Learn to understand a ******* timeline, and learn to actually read and understand posts before you go off half-cocked in another of your typical knee-jerk responses!

It was a response to my post- about an incident in the UK. That you are trying to divert the topic away from the UK is not my problem, and nor is it angrysoba's.

ETA: ninja'd by angrysoba.
It is also noteworthy that you are veering into conspiracy theory territory here, with your claim about "the authorities" conspiring against JK Rowling, and a sinister takeover of media sources. Your endorsement of the notoriously inaccurate and bigoted Daily Mail, and your rejection of facts due to confirmation bias, do you no credit at all.
 
A bit different from the 'innocent devout Catholic housewife' picture Farrow paints of herself, don't you think? That's why I was asking for more balanced reporting.

Perhaps you should also look at the background of Stephanie Hayden

https://reduxx.info/uk-prominent-trans-activist-known-for-having-opponents-arrested-has-history-of-indecent-assault-on-14-year-old-boy/

Hayden has initiated legal action against more than two dozen individuals over the years, often in an apparent effort to prevent them from referring to him as a “man,” or quashing speculations regarding his past criminal history

Details of another case involving Stephanie Hayden, where Kate Scottaw was cleared on appeal

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Scottow-v-CPS-judgment-161220.pdf
 
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The tweets are talked about in more detail. Whether you think they should rise to the level of a police investigation, I think it is somewhat more plausible that her tweets could be considered malicious and harassing, which is what the investigation was about.

It wasn't the same as smartcooky's made-up example, so he cannot expect that "Judy Jones" would have the same leg to stand on. Now if smartcooky were to Tweet out to some audience he had gathered something like, "everyone pile on Judy Jones for being a little freak and her mum who castrated the little bugger when he was only 16! Come on everyone! Tell them what you think of the freaky child abuser and mutilated freak!"

Then, maybe the police might take more of an interest...
 

They won't want to know about that. It doesn't fit their preferred narrative of "priest's wife therefore bigot"

But the worst aspect of this is that if this vile piece of human scum were to ever do this again, that criminal activity will be recorded as a woman committing a sex crime instead of what it really is, a man committing a sex crime, and if this scum ends up in prison, its likely to be a women's prison

Disgusting!
 
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What was the topic?

The subject was about the UK. Just because you had some digression about Australia hardly means that I cannot correct your claims about the UK being "ideologically captured".

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I never said the UK was ideologically captured, I said it was next!

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They won't want to know about that. It doesn't fit their preferred narrative of "priest's wife therefore bigot"
But the worst aspect of this is that if this vile piece of human scum were to ever do this again, that criminal activity will be recorded as a woman committing a sex crime instead of what it really is, a man committing a sex crime, and if this scum ends up in prison, its likely to be a women's prison

Disgusting!

Has anyone said this or even implied this? It seems like you're taking the low road here and basing your argument's strength on how much foam you produce while fulminating.
 
[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/go6bf1rzm6nbdol2d3vyx/Cfail.png?rlkey=vvvfxtzqy7rpan9y97ihcuc33&raw=1[/qimg]

I never said the UK was ideologically captured, I said it was next! [qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/05v36ivg9ec8af0sk5q9g/headbang.gif?rlkey=ht118mac1hl4iqcdvhs3b18ni&raw=1[/qimg]

Hello. You need to work on getting that blood pressure down.

I know you said it was next. I explained why I disagree with you that it is next.

The two main parties essentially agree that males and females are defined by sex, not gender. They both accept the Cass Review.

You respond that my points are IrELeveNT!!!!1!

Do you see how my points are completely relevant now?

Now take a chill pill and read your own report card carefully.
 
Ridiculous.
Nowhere have I said that Farrow is a bigot because she's a priest's wife. Nowhere have I done anything other than condemn TRAs trying to silence free speech.
You can do better than this, smartcooky.

You questioned her honesty!
You questioned the claims she made!
You questioned why she would be posting on Kiwi Farms!

I'll let others draws their own conclusions from that

Interestingly, "Hayden complained to the police about this post, together with other posts where Farrow called her a “pedophile” and accused her of stalking Farrow’s eldest daughter"

And it turns out that Hayden IS a paedophile. Well, fancy that!!
 
I don't know anything about Kiwi Farms, and I don't know whether Caroline Farrow actually posts there. As I understand it, "Stephanie" Hayden went to the police complaining that certain anonymous (or pseudonymous) posts he found offensive or threatening had been made by her, and the police proceeded to act against her on the assumption that this was true. It goes far further than has been related here, with the police applying to have very strict bail conditions applied to her, even though she hadn't even been charged with anything let alone convicted. (I don't have access to my Twitter account so I can't get the references.)

To act this way against a member of the public, priest's wife or not, on nothing but the unsupported word of a man like Hayden, who has a very unsavoury criminal record, is preposterous. But Hayden is one of the Holy Trans, so he gets to use the police as his personal hit squad.
 
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I don't know anything about Kiwi Farms, and I don't know whether Caroline Farrow actually posts there.

Well, you should do, because I posted a link about it. But, once again, you didn't read my post, and didn't learn what you needed to learn.
Perhaps there's a lesson for you in that.

Now, how about those sources? Do you have any?
 
The link you provided said that Farrow was "accused of" posting something under a pseudonym, but didn't explain how the pseudonym was linked to her. It also said that Vice were unable to find the alleged post. It also said she also posted there under her own name, but didn't say that anything she posted under her own name was offensive or illegal.
 
You questioned her honesty!
You questioned the claims she made!

Yes, I did. It's called scepticism. It's called looking at both sides of the story, and getting the full picture, before coming to a conclusion. I see nothing remarkable in that.
Let me turn that back on you: why did you not question her story? Why did you blindly accept it as complete and truthful? Could it be confirmation bias, or is there some other reason?
I'll note in passing that you have not retracted the accusation that I'm criticising Harrow because she's the wife of a Catholic priest. Not very nice, that.

You questioned why she would be posting on Kiwi Farms!

Yup. Do please tell me why you are defending this site.
Kiwi Farms, formerly known as CWCki Forums (/ˈkwɪki/ KWIH-kee), is a web forum that facilitates the discussion and harassment of online figures and communities. Their targets are often subject to organized group trolling and stalking, as well as doxxing and real-life harassment.These actions have tied Kiwi Farms to the suicides of three people targeted by members of the forum.

I'll let others draws their own conclusions from that.

As will I.

Interestingly, "Hayden complained to the police about this post, together with other posts where Farrow called her a “pedophile” and accused her of stalking Farrow’s eldest daughter"

And it turns out that Hayden IS a paedophile. Well, fancy that!!

I'm not defending Hayden. I'm criticising doxxing, and threats of arson, something you seem perfectly fine with.
 
Cosmic Yak, I don't take orders from you. Or lessons either, come to that.

As you wish.
I'll then dismiss both your anecdotal stories due to your refusal to support them. Hitchens' Razor, you know.
It is also entirely up to you if you wish to post about things you refuse to learn about. You may find that approach does not result in informed debate from you. However, if that's what you want, you carry on.
 
Hold on - what if I'm sceptical of your sources? All you've provided is a story in Vice News which didn't show anything that Farrow had actually done and was pretty much based on the word of Stephanie Hayden, a convicted paedophile.

How about you link to this doxxing and threats of arson you claim to be criticising?
 
The link you provided said that Farrow was "accused of" posting something under a pseudonym, but didn't explain how the pseudonym was linked to her. It also said that Vice were unable to find the alleged post. It also said she also posted there under her own name, but didn't say that anything she posted under her own name was offensive or illegal.

That was one of the many posts she's made. There was also this:
The investigation stems primarily from a tweet the Farrow posted on July 26, which included a photo of a letter she had received notifying her of a legal action being brought against her by Hayden over her continuing online harassment. Farrow’s post revealed Hayden’s full address, alongside a comment misgendering Hayden.

The tweet has since been deleted, but VICE News has reviewed an archived version of the message to confirm the contents of the post.

Hayden complained to the police about this post, together with other posts where Farrow called her a “pedophile” and accused her of stalking Farrow’s eldest daughter.

Curious that you missed this, given that the text you quote follows directly after this text. Are you also fine with doxxing people?
 

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