Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

In the list of acts under the HCE's headline claim about the 90% are:

Double anal, triple anal, choking, bukkake, gangbang, gagging, torture, electrocution, surprise (penetration by surprise), urine spraying.

Prolapse is mentioned as a sought-after category.

It also says:

Signing a contract doesn't change a thing. On the contrary, contracts are binding: signing them in advance is one of the pornocrats' means of coercion, giving an appearance of legality to the most sadistic acts. But you can't consent to your own torture and humiliation. You can't contractualize an act of physical or sexual violence. Pornographic industry contracts are legally null and void.​

I suspect that many porn consumers will be fully normalized to such acts -which would explain why the 90% figure does not appear credible.

I think you need to back up this extraordinary claim with some kind of evidence. To claim, without any kind of support, that many people do not consider torture to be violent, or don't even notice sexual violence, is a deeply unpleasant verdict on humanity. Is this just your own sour view of people, or have you got a source for this?
 
The 90% figure is indeed high - surprisingly high. It's HCE's claim and it's notable that article's such as the Guardian's (a left leaning paper) on the HCE claim has no push back.

Do you believe this claim yourself, because you appear to be distancing yourself from it. It is a mainstay of your argument here, after all.
 
Sexual violence means that someone forces or manipulates someone else into unwanted sexual activity without their consent.

See previous post.

Is it being suggested that the participants are being forced to take part in the sexual acts, or is that they they are acting a part where their characters are?
 
Sexual violence means that someone forces or manipulates someone else into unwanted sexual activity without their consent.

See previous post.

I have had friends and known people who engaged in some of the acts you mentioned (one couple I knew probably engaged in all of them, I remember commenting to them wasn’t it a lot of work), not one example of which would be covered by your definition of sexual violence i.e. “ someone forces or manipulates someone else into unwanted sexual activity without their consent ”. Therefore to assume that pornography featuring such acts/fetishes is sexual violence from either their presentation in the pornography or a description/title/tags is a mistake.

Why by the way do we have to reinvent the language for this? We already have sexual assault and rape to cover “ someone forces or manipulates someone else into unwanted sexual activity without their consent” and these are all recognised to be serious crimes.
 
In the list of acts under the HCE's headline claim about the 90% are:

Double anal, triple anal, choking, bukkake, gangbang, gagging, torture, electrocution, surprise (penetration by surprise), urine spraying.

Prolapse is mentioned as a sought-after category.

It also says:

Signing a contract doesn't change a thing. On the contrary, contracts are binding: signing them in advance is one of the pornocrats' means of coercion, giving an appearance of legality to the most sadistic acts. But you can't consent to your own torture and humiliation. You can't contractualize an act of physical or sexual violence. Pornographic industry contracts are legally null and void.​

I suspect that many porn consumers will be fully normalized to such acts -which would explain why the 90% figure does not appear credible.

you can suspect that all you want, but it’s easily verifiable that 90% of videos on porn sites don’t contain that kind of content.
 
I think you need to back up this extraordinary claim with some kind of evidence. To claim, without any kind of support, that many people do not consider torture to be violent, or don't even notice sexual violence, is a deeply unpleasant verdict on humanity. Is this just your own sour view of people, or have you got a source for this?

I am assuming by “torture” they are referring to the likes of the fetishes that fall under the umbrella term “BDSM”. Now to me most of those acts would be torture as I would get no enjoyment from such acts but there are those that enjoy such acts, as long as consensual I see nothing wrong with folks enjoying whatever turns them on or causes them enjoyment.

(I do have to say that I think there is a grey area in extreme “BDSM” that results in physical damage and sometimes life long injuries, but that isn’t what seems to be under discussion in this thread.)
 
I still draw a distinction between the HCE citing of Laure Beccuau's citing of the Bridges study in relation to physical and verbal aggression and the HCE's assertion of 90% regarding physical and sexual violence.

You have no justification for this distinction. You're just making **** up. And what do you even mean by "sexual violence"? Is there sexual violence which is not also physical violence? What does that even look like?

Clearly, the physical violence does not need to be 90% for HCE's headline to be valid.

Sure, because their headline includes "verbal violence". But verbal violence is bull ****, and more importantly, their source measured aggression, not violence.

The experience of porn actress Nikita Bellucci, who is mention in the French Senate report and linked to in the HCE report, is relevant

It's relevant to the broader issue of porn, sure. It's not relevant to the 90% statistic, which is what we're discussing right now.

This is what I don't get about what you're doing here. Since you're wrong about the 90% statistic, it would make more sense to simply concede that point and focus on other stuff where you could make a better case. But you can't, and that speaks poorly about your ability to handle this issue rationally rather than emotionally.

It might be that the HCE has used the Bridges study as a foundation for the 90% figure

Might be? No, it IS the foundation for the 90% figure. It is the source, and the only source, for that number. It doesn't come from anywhere else.

and it isn't a stretch to assume that violence has actually gone up in the years since that study (ie 2004/5). You acknowledged this in #928.

Sure, that's absolutely possible. But it hasn't been established, not by you and not by the HCE report.

It might be the case that the HCE has failed to properly distinguish between the Bridges study on aggression and their own findings on violence and sexual violence. If they haven't then that would be remiss.

They weren't remiss, you were remiss in assuming without reason that their own findings had anything to do with the 90% figure. They don't. The HCE report doesn't ever claim they do. That was entirely your own invention.

Again, I would draw attention to the HCE's inclusion of sexual violence in their headline. There will be a good number of videos that contain no physical violence that will nevertheless be sexually violent.

What does that even mean? Seriously, I have no idea what you think sexual violence in the absence of physical violence is.

One would expect significant push back in the media etc if this were the case.

Why on earth would you expect that? You seem to be confused about how the media actually operates. You seem to think they want to stop moral panics, rather than feed on them.

In the text you translated.

Uh, no. No, they do not actually claim that every video contains what the keyword says it contains. I know why you think they claim that, but they don't actually. You seem to be assuming that they would never write things to suggest more than they actually say, because that would be dishonest. But that is foolishly naive. Of course they would. They did.

The full report?

Yes, the full report. That 200+ page document you found. It does not have any source for the 90% figure other than the Bridges paper. Nothing else.
 
You have no justification for this distinction. You're just making **** up. And what do you even mean by "sexual violence"? Is there sexual violence which is not also physical violence? What does that even look like?

The World Health Organization:

Sexual violence is any sexual act, attempt to obtain a sexual act, or other act directed against a person’s sexuality using coercion, by any person regardless of their relationship to the victim, in any setting. It includes rape, defined as the physically forced or otherwise coerced penetration of the vulva or anus with a penis, other body part or object.​

Sure, because their headline includes "verbal violence". But verbal violence is bull ****, and more importantly, their source measured aggression, not violence.

Surely you agree normalizing verbal attacks attacks against women isn't good for society?

This is what I don't get about what you're doing here. Since you're wrong about the 90% statistic, it would make more sense to simply concede that point and focus on other stuff where you could make a better case. But you can't, and that speaks poorly about your ability to handle this issue rationally rather than emotionally.

I concede that it looks as though the HCE report relies solely on the Bridges study for the 90% claim.

What does that even mean? Seriously, I have no idea what you think sexual violence in the absence of physical violence is.

See above.

Why on earth would you expect that? You seem to be confused about how the media actually operates. You seem to think they want to stop moral panics, rather than feed on them.

I accept that I have been too trusting, yes.

Uh, no. No, they do not actually claim that every video contains what the keyword says it contains. I know why you think they claim that, but they don't actually. You seem to be assuming that they would never write things to suggest more than they actually say, because that would be dishonest. But that is foolishly naive. Of course they would. They did.

This could work both ways - videos that might be described as equivalent to 'vanilla' might contain much more than that.

Males absolutely should take sex a lot more seriously.

But you haven't been paying attention to the modern hookup scene if you think females don't need to take it a lot more seriously as well. This is a general social dysfunction, it is by no means limited to males. Look up some of the @whatever podcast clips to see how deep the delusions can go among females. It will horrify you.

And note: I'm not saying women are worse than men. But they aren't necessarily better either. Their dysfunctions just manifest differently than men's.

If porn stands for (nearly) anything goes sex, why have you written this about hookup culture?
 
Surely you agree normalizing verbal attacks attacks against women isn't good for society?

In general, no. But I'm not worried about a little dirty talk, which some of that category probably is. I think there are much bigger fish to fry, even from an anti-porn perspective.

I concede that it looks as though the HCE report relies solely on the Bridges study for the 90% claim.

OK, good, so we can move on from that.

This could work both ways - videos that might be described as equivalent to 'vanilla' might contain much more than that.

Yes, they might. That is a logical possibility.

If porn stands for (nearly) anything goes sex, why have you written this about hookup culture?

I don't understand the question. You're framing this as if what you said here about porn and what I wrote about hookup culture are somehow at odds with each other, but I don't see that they are. Either you're missing something about what I said or I'm missing something about what you're asking, and I can't really tell which.
 
I don't understand the question. You're framing this as if what you said here about porn and what I wrote about hookup culture are somehow at odds with each other, but I don't see that they are. Either you're missing something about what I said or I'm missing something about what you're asking, and I can't really tell which.

What horrifies you about hookup culture? I believe you posted once that porn has led to such a culture....CMIIW.
 
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Meant to post this about a week ago. I stiffened my resolve and went to Pornhub and noted the name/description of the first 20 videos I came across. Not one of them was titled or described as violent.

ETA: I used the duckduckgo browser and entered at www.pornhub.com, I had to click that I was over 18 and accepted essential cookies only.
 
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I don’t think porn causes hookup culture. It doesn’t help, but it’s not a primary contributor. And the problem with it is that it inhibits stable relationship formation and therefore undermines societal cohesion.

https://youtu.be/fgWvh-AQTEY?si=pvAr8XbDDrNDf4l6

Heh. The sexual revolution has made it alot easier for men to get sex and cycle through women with little to no consequence (for the guy). I recall that Justice Douglas, one of those who voted for Roe v Wade, married his 23 year-old fourth wife when he was 67. Well played, sir.
 
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That's true for high status men. But low status men probably have a harder time getting access to sex.

This is probably true. Read somewhere that some high-status (read: attractive) guys go through many different women. The women thinking he'll stick around. Yeah, no.
 
The World Health Organization:

Sexual violence is any sexual act, attempt to obtain a sexual act, or other act directed against a person’s sexuality using coercion, by any person regardless of their relationship to the victim, in any setting. It includes rape, defined as the physically forced or otherwise coerced penetration of the vulva or anus with a penis, other body part or object.​

My apologies, I had assumed the poor grammar was yours. Apparently it's the WHO's.
 

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