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Cont: 2024 Election Thread part 2

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dudalb said:
The other factor is that Trump is simply not running a good campaign.
He is not making any moves towards getting the swing vote he seems to just wan to preach to the converted.
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Perverted?
 
Pixel42 said:
I think it's more likely he didn't even bother to check if there were any rules. He just assumed he could go wherever he liked and do whatever he liked.
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The Great Zaganza said:
Arlington says they sent the Rules more or less to everyone on the Trump team they could find - multiple people on that trip knew exactly what they rules were.
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I don't think that is inconsistent with what Pixel42 said. Just because Trump's team got a copy of the rules, someone would have to talk to Trump and tell him it wasn't allowed.
 
And yet, after Biden finally got the message and quit, it turned out that the GOP were not even ready to capitalize on the thing they were most arguing for. They somehow only had a play book to use against Biden, and once he was gone they looked like the dog who caught the car and didn't know what do with it.
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Because Trump wouldn't even consider that someone would step down.
 
jimbob said:
I don't think that is inconsistent with what Pixel42 said. Just because Trump's team got a copy of the rules, someone would have to talk to Trump and tell him it wasn't allowed.
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But that is irrelevant - the Trump Team knew, and it's their job to make sure they stick to the rules.
If they decided not to tell Trump, than that's deliberate.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
But that is irrelevant - the Trump Team knew, and it's their job to make sure they stick to the rules.
If they decided not to tell Trump, than that's deliberate.
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We're not disagreeing. I see it as Trump thinking that the very concept of rules applying to him is an affront. Rather than his deliberately bothering to check and then break some rules.
 
jt512 said:
I was in one of the swing states last week, where I saw constant Trump ads on TV portraying Harris as a radical leftist. That, I would think, is exactly what a conservative candidate would do to pull undecided centrists to his side.
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It's the one certainty in American politics. Any left of the extreme right is a communist.
 
jt512 said:
I was in one of the swing states last week, where I saw constant Trump ads on TV portraying Harris as a radical leftist. That, I would think, is exactly what a conservative candidate would do to pull undecided centrists to his side.
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Paid for by the John Birch Society perchance? Always a winner with the undecided centrists!
 
Trausti said:
[qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GWCiklfXwAAH_Jf?format=jpg&name=small[/qimg]
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While it's regrettable they don't know better, I don't hold it against these families that they're unaware they were being played by a sociopath who doesn't actually give a rat's ass about their loss.

Partisans who pretend otherwise on the other hand...
 
Stacyhs said:
Well, bless your heart if you think the majority of people aren't greedy, selfish bastards if given free rein.
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They aren't, but in unconstrained systems the bad will muscle out the good. And eventually the only way to play in such a system is by being bad.

When human networks were smaller (at about the 300-400 pop level) it was easier to police the bad actors, but these days the only way to police the minority who are bad actors takes significant powers, those that can only be reasonably wielded by states.
 
jimbob said:
I don't think that is inconsistent with what Pixel42 said. Just because Trump's team got a copy of the rules, someone would have to talk to Trump and tell him it wasn't allowed.
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The Great Zaganza said:
But that is irrelevant - the Trump Team knew, and it's their job to make sure they stick to the rules.
If they decided not to tell Trump, than that's deliberate.
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I've been to ANC many times. While we may never know whether Trump was personally informed of the rules, those on his team (or whoever's team) holding the cameras certainly were. More so there than any other place in the world I've visited, cemetery staff are fanatically adamant about maintaining decorum, and communicating and enforcing the rules. Everyone's cooperation in respecting the space is what makes it feel sacred. The notion that staff trying to stop rule-breakers are suffering a "mental health episode" is frankly insulting.

Those defending Trump's behavior seem star-struck. They say they would be honored to have a President come pay his respects. But the problems are obvious: you don't have to make a campaign commercial out of it. More importantly, you're not the only one there. At any given time, any area of the cemetery will be hosting several families grieving their honored dead, and you are guaranteed to encounter an active funeral. The rules are there to ensure that every family who has lost a loved on in the line of duty has an appropriately solemn experience, not just the ones who are helping someone campaign for office.
 
The family of a Green Beret that died by suicide doesn't appear to be pleased that their relative was included in the campaign material, and the woman who made the report isn't pressing charges because she fears Trump supporter backlash and threats. It's behind a paywall but the key part is:

The family of a Green Beret who died by suicide after serving eight combat tours and is buried at Arlington National Cemetery expressed concern on Wednesday that Donald J. Trump’s campaign had filmed his gravesite without permission as Mr. Trump stood in an area where campaign photography isn’t allowed.

Relatives of Master Sgt. Andrew Marckesano issued their statement two days after Mr. Trump’s visit, which also included a confrontation between members of the Trump campaign and an Arlington employee. The former president’s campaign took video in a heavily restricted section of the cemetery known as Section 60, which is largely reserved for the fallen veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

A woman who works at the cemetery filed an incident report with the military authorities over the altercation. But the official, who has not been identified, later declined to press charges. Military officials said she feared Mr. Trump’s supporters pursuing retaliation. Source
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Both incidents are mentioned in this non-paywalled source as well.

That's how terrible of people Trump and some of his supporters are and how it works to their advantage. People are so afraid of how ******* bat **** crazy these dumb ass holes are that they won't even hold them accountable. The ****** part is it works and his supporters are proud of it.
 
dudalb said:
The Arlington Cemetary fuss will not die down.
Arlington is supposed to be one place above Partisan Politics, and the people running it are very keen to keep it that way. Trump was clearly trying to exploit it for his political gain.
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It really is funny you think anyone will change their mind over that. People who like trump know he does stuff like this and like him anyway.
 
Again remember when misspelling a root vegetable or looking goofy in a tank helmet or having a weird scream would not only end your campaign, not only end your political career, but turn you into a, no THE go to political joke for the next decade?

That's what's so goddamn frustrating about this. "This should be end of Trump!" should be true! Just like the last 5,000 "This should have been the end of Trumps!" should have been true. He has done things that should have tanked a political career a billion times over.

I noted years ago that nothing, nothing will shake that ~40% thing. No matter how we ask the question, no matter what happens, about 40% of Americans like Trump and I don't know why and they won't tell us because they can only speak in Troll.

Even trolling can't feel this good.
 
ponderingturtle said:
It really is funny you think anyone will change their mind over that. People who like trump know he does stuff like this and like him anyway.
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It won't change their mind but seeing MAGAhats on the defensive is fun:

"But...but what about this pic of Obama at Arlington!!!!CEHECKMETE LIBRUSL!!"

"Not used in a political campaign, used an approved photgrapher. Next."
 
JoeMorgue said:
Again remember when misspelling a root vegetable or looking goofy in a tank helmet or having a weird scream would not only end your campaign, not only end your political career, but turn you into a, no THE go to political joke for the next decade?

That's what's so goddamn frustrating about this. "This should be end of Trump!" should be true! Just like the last 5,000 "This should have been the end of Trumps!" should have been true. He has done things that should have tanked a political career a billion times over.

I noted years ago that nothing, nothing will shake that ~40% thing. No matter how we ask the question, no matter what happens, about 40% of Americans like Trump and I don't know why and they won't tell us because they can only speak in Troll.

Even trolling can't feel this good.
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TBF, what choice do they have ? When we bitched how Biden is too old, nobody really considered Trump as an alternative. There are 2 parties, and 2 candidates. IMHO people choose the party, rather than the candidate. They then have to support its candidate, no matter what he/she does.
 
Dr.Sid said:
TBF, what choice do they have ? When we bitched how Biden is too old, nobody really considered Trump as an alternative. There are 2 parties, and 2 candidates. IMHO people choose the party, rather than the candidate. They then have to support its candidate, no matter what he/she does.
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Horse ****. "Well I have to vote Republican, my hands are tied!" is insane.
 
nobody considered trump an alternative because he is an incredibly flawed human being.

in any case i think people do choose the party, but in this case the state of the republicans at the national level is just as flawed as trump, objectively so imo. what other choice do they have? paying a little attention would be one.
 
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