Euro Bashers now Euro Lovers

I love how everything these days is so polarized. You either hate a thing utterly, or adore it with a passion verging on, nay, surpassing, worship. You can't dislike Bush; you have to hate him, or loooooove him. Same with Europe, and the Iraq war, and every single person, country, thing, issue, or concept. Everything in life now has radio buttons that say "Pro" or "Anti", and everyone's supposed to pick which view they hold. No middle grounds, no neutrals, no abstentions, and no range of other options. And if you are seen to say or do anything that conflicts with your Pro or Anti stance, you're immediately accused of "flip-flopping", treachery, and hypocrisy.
Thanks to BPSG for getting me to look at this post.

YES! I so agree. It is politically expedient for such dichotomies. Bush used the technique to great effect. You are either with us or you are against us. Divide and conquer. I don't think I have ever bashed Denmark. From what I have read it is a wonderful country with a high standard of living. I'm not anti-Europe. I've bashed France and other nations but I'm not against France.
 
It's simple. I make my judgements based on current events and particulars. I can dislike what one country in Europe is doing and like what another is doing or identify with in some way. Sometimes, I can like some of what a country is doing and dislike another thing they're doing. For example, I can like how England is responding to the current events, but I'm pissed off at how the Jean Charles de Menezes inquest is still three weeks away. On the other hand, if they do a good job, in March my opinion might be totally reversed. Right now, Denmark is going through a rough time, and I think they can use some support. I thought that Chavez was a waste of flesh until he actually started delivering on his promises, and now I think he's a hoopy frood.

It's not important for me to define myself politically as a "Euro Basher" or a "Euro Lover." Nor do I have a particular need to view Europe as a monolith. For some things, it can be considered more monolithic than others. But it doesn't puzzle me at all that people who sometimes bash European countries will also sometimes praise them; it seems quite natural.

You have to ask the question "why?" because you don't think that way. You indicate so yourself when you say that Denmark hasn't changed at all. What's important to you is the identity of countries and peoples (e.g. Denmark) and the identity of people (e.g. "Euro Bashers," "Euro Lovers," "Flag Wavers"). As long as someone has the basic worldview, even if it's on "the other side," you can understand that. So you can groove with Dr. Adequate and Mephisto and The Fool. But you can also groove with Skeptic, even though you may vehemently disagree with him, because the basic framework of thought is the same.

On the other hand, you can't groove with me or Mycroft or Mark or BPSCG or Luke T., to name a few, because the framework of thought is different. It's possible that you don't even see that there is a difference in the framework of thought or will at least vehemently deny it.


Wow! Very well said.

AUP,

It's nonsensical to think that a disagreement on one policy means a person can’t be supportive on another issue. The world isn’t a series of dichotomies where you have to be either 100% supportive or 100% against things. That’s very simplistic black & white thinking.

I criticize my daughter for not doing her math homework, I still support her in her dancing. No contradiction.

I criticize my government for poor financial policy decisions, I still support its efforts in combating terror. No contradiction.

I criticize Europe for some difference of opinion in policy, I still support one European nation facing a trial. No contradiction.

Or what might be really mind-bending for the one with such a black&white worldview:

I criticize Islam for fostering an environment that encourages radicalism and violence while supporting any individual Muslim’s sincere faith in God that encourages them to be a better person.
 
I love how everything these days is so polarized. You either hate a thing utterly, or adore it with a passion verging on, nay, surpassing, worship. You can't dislike Bush; you have to hate him, or loooooove him. Same with Europe, and the Iraq war, and every single person, country, thing, issue, or concept. Everything in life now has radio buttons that say "Pro" or "Anti", and everyone's supposed to pick which view they hold. No middle grounds, no neutrals, no abstentions, and no range of other options. And if you are seen to say or do anything that conflicts with your Pro or Anti stance, you're immediately accused of "flip-flopping", treachery, and hypocrisy.

As we all know, there is no such thing as a moderate. You're either for me or against me.

BTW, I think this is the GREATEST POST I'VE EVER READ! Frankly, it teems with logic, compassion for the speechless and empathy for the poor. ;)

P.S. I'll bet you're an impeccable dresser and have a great hairdo as well.
 
Speaking as one who is almost certainly perceived as a Euro-basher, all I can say is, I always admire a display of spine against totalitarianism. And, no, it's not the same now as it has been in the past decade or so.

There is the small pleasure, very small since I don't laugh, that some Europeans now may find that it's not just being the biggest guy on the block that generates hate from some quarters.

I hope this brings some of the most utopians on the state of the world back to earth.
 
There is the small pleasure, very small since I don't laugh, that some Europeans now may find that it's not just being the biggest guy on the block that generates hate from some quarters.

I hope this brings some of the most utopians on the state of the world back to earth.

Or indeed the knee-jerk response of putting on a hair shirt and whipping oneself saying, "Why do they hate us?"

"It must be our policy..."
 
I love how everything these days is so polarized. You either hate a thing utterly, or adore it with a passion verging on, nay, surpassing, worship. You can't dislike Bush; you have to hate him, or loooooove him. Same with Europe, and the Iraq war, and every single person, country, thing, issue, or concept. Everything in life now has radio buttons that say "Pro" or "Anti", and everyone's supposed to pick which view they hold. No middle grounds, no neutrals, no abstentions, and no range of other options. And if you are seen to say or do anything that conflicts with your Pro or Anti stance, you're immediately accused of "flip-flopping", treachery, and hypocrisy.

I demand that you take that back, right now, or I'll report you to Darat!! I've never been so insulted, ever.:mad:
 
Thanks to BPSG for getting me to look at this post.

YES! I so agree. It is politically expedient for such dichotomies. Bush used the technique to great effect. You are either with us or you are against us. Divide and conquer. I don't think I have ever bashed Denmark. From what I have read it is a wonderful country with a high standard of living. I'm not anti-Europe. I've bashed France and other nations but I'm not against France.

I would not put TM down as a Euro Basher. So when he backs them, ( as he has done), it make sense, ditto kitty.
 
You have to ask the question "why?" because you don't think that way. You indicate so yourself when you say that Denmark hasn't changed at all. What's important to you is the identity of countries and peoples (e.g. Denmark) and the identity of people (e.g. "Euro Bashers," "Euro Lovers," "Flag Wavers"). As long as someone has the basic worldview, even if it's on "the other side," you can understand that. So you can groove with Dr. Adequate and Mephisto and The Fool. But you can also groove with Skeptic, even though you may vehemently disagree with him, because the basic framework of thought is the same.
Since you mention my name I assume you must be trying to say something about me. But what? You seem to have discovered a substance even less substantial than straw. I congratulate you. Now, in English, please:

What lie are you attempting to tell about my opinions?
 
Can you tell the rest of us what we are? Since you appointed yourself the arbitrator of this topic.
Probably not, unless you tell us what your opinions are on Europe.

I've always thought of you as one of the sane rightwing posters. Don't throe that away.
 
I criticize Islam for fostering an environment that encourages radicalism and violence while supporting any individual Muslim’s sincere faith in God that encourages them to be a better person.
A bit off topic (surprise, surprise), but how do you support an individual Muslim's faith in God, and how does it (the faith, I guess?) encourage him to be a better person?
 
IMHO. YMMV.
Listen, AUP.

It's noonish on a summer Sunday in Australia. Go away. Go to the beach. Fire up the barbie and put a couple of steaks on it. Pour a Foster's. Listen to some music. Smell the roses. Go pick up a pretty girl (or guy, or a goat, your preference, I don't care).

Wassa matta with you? Get a goddam life!!!
 

Back
Top Bottom