Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

The question is why public prosecutors aren't describing violence in entertainment as criminally reprehensible. According to every argument you've laid out here, they should be. Gang violence, armed robbery, terrorism... People are literally dying. But somehow violent entertainment is not implicated.

Why the special pleading about porn? What makes sexual entertainment a vector for antisocial values, but not violent entertainment? Do any of your vaunted authority figures answer this question? Or even acknowledge it?
While I certainly don't agree with what Poem is saying, there is a difference between violence portrayed in movies and sex in porn (as opposed to sex in mainstream films); the former is simulated, the latter is real. The viewer is, in most cases, aware of this, and this may affect their thinking. The argument usually made in defence of violence in films is that people know it's not real, so are not seriously affected by it. That cuts both ways, if people know that the sex in porn is real, then they may be more influenced by what they see.
 
the actual mechanical sex part is often real, and even then. but, many of the scenarios, video titles, and descriptions of the content, are not.
 
the actual mechanical sex part is often real, and even then. but, many of the scenarios, video titles, and descriptions of the content, are not.

Well, yes, that part is shared with films featuring violence, I was pointing out what I see as a significant difference.
 
Well, yes, that part is shared with films featuring violence, I was pointing out what I see as a significant difference.

i think a significant portion of what some of these studies referencing the problematic parts of porn is coming from that shared feature. when you take away the make believe part of a lot of the videos these studies are suggesting, it's just two unrelated adults having sex on camera. like tom cruise doing his own stunts, yeah i guess it's more real but we know we are still not watching a real thing that happened.
 
well you can just go on a porn site and see that 90% of the videos on it aren't violent. they're free to go on.

The HCE report, as already cited, states:

Physical and sexual violence in 90% of online videos
The Haut Conseil à l'Egalité conducted a study of the four main pornographic platforms (Pornhub, Pornhub, XVideos, Xnxx, Xhamster)

Sexual violence is not the same as physical violence. It is when someone is forced or manipulated to perform a sex act against their consent. Are you in a position to guarantee that that didn't happen to the actresses (let's face it, this issue is about the abuse of women) in the videos you sampled?

The HCE report was intended to be an in-depth examination and extension of the French Senate report. Here's an AP citation on that Senate report

During six months of research, the Senate’s delegation for women’s rights and gender equality heard from over 50 people, including some involved in the industry, women’s rights activists and victims.​

One of the actresses they spoke to (Nikita Bellucci):

She recalled...in the early stage of her career, her “consent (was) abolished” while performing a scene. It took her ten years to realize what happened because she believed the wrong idea that “a porn actress can’t be abused because she chose to do this work.”​

The fact that you found less than 90% violence in the videos you sampled does not contradict the HCE reports findings.

Here's CEASE's written evidence to the UK parliamentary committee where they discuss such sexual violence:

In the US it is common practice for ‘performers’ involved in the production of part of pornography to sign contracts before filming a scene. However, they are not always informed what will be involved in the scene and what they will be expected to do. Pornography producers have admitted that they keep the information about a scene as vague as possible until the woman shows up to the shoot. Once on set, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible for her to then say no to what she is being told to do, which are often extreme and violent sex acts. The ‘performers’ then have to film a video after the scene saying that they consented to what has just taken place, the prerequisite being, if they don’t then they risk not getting paid.​
 
That's a very good question. I note that you don't actually have an answer. I have an answer, but you won't like it.

Since the HCE report says that 90% of online porn is physically and sexually violent I have answered. The Bridges study was about aggression (physical or verbal) in rentals; it does not examine sexual violence and it does not examine online porn. The HCE explicitly state they did their own study.
 
Le Monde article on the French Senate Report:

"This is the first time I have worked on a subject on which there are no institutional documents, no report, nothing." And according to Laurence Rossignol, Socialist vice president of the French Sénat and rapporteur, along with three other members of the chamber's women's rights delegation of the first parliamentary report on the porn industry, the lack of interest in the subject is no coincidence. "There is a lot of male resistance to making these kinds of topics political issues."
 
If the claim rests on something other than the one study Ziggurat mentioned, what does it rest upon? You have quoted people making the claim, but not their evidence for that claim. Do you have such evidence for where their claim comes from, or do you just have their testimony?

The Guardian article on the HCE report (the original is in French).
Euro News article on the French Senate report.
 
I must say, I do find this claim that 90% of online pornography contains violence or aggression against women to be rather incredible.
If this is true, then all the gay porn, straight porn without violence against women, lesbian porn without violence against women, BDSM in which women are violent towards men, and presumably the fringe fetish stuff, comprises only 10% of the total content. I find this hard to believe.
This is purely my opinion, but I would be interested to see where they got this 90% figure from.

The claim is 90% of it is physically and sexually violent. Sexual violence isn't physical violence.
 
Well, yes, that part is shared with films featuring violence, I was pointing out what I see as a significant difference.

The HCE report states that 'the violence is real'.

Clearly not all violence is real but what is your evidence?
 
The HCE report states that 'the violence is real'.

Clearly not all violence is real but what is your evidence?

The evidence for the claim 'your claim is unevidenced' is that your claim is not backed up by anything besides people claiming to have, but not showing, evidence.
 
The evidence for the claim 'your claim is unevidenced' is that your claim is not backed up by anything besides people claiming to have, but not showing, evidence.

Please could you clarify.
 
Since the HCE report says that 90% of online porn is physically and sexually violent I have answered.

No, it does not say that.

The Bridges study was about aggression (physical or verbal) in rentals; it does not examine sexual violence and it does not examine online porn.

That is correct. But the Bridges study is the only source for the 90% claim.

The HCE explicitly state they did their own study.

But you don't understand what they studied. For anyone interested, here it is again:
https://www.haut-conseil-egalite.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/hce-synthese-rapport_pornocriminalite27092023.pdf

Here is the Google translation of their first section:

Google Translate of HCE Report said:
The High Council for Equality conducted a study on the four main pornographic platforms (Pornhub, XVideos, Xnxx, Xhamster) which have millions of videos and on which women are classified by categories and keywords. Their business model being the monetization of traffic, the videos compete in the most violent, most degrading practices possible in a hellish "race for clicks": "double anal", "triple anal" (several penises in one anus) are counted in the millions, even if a producer declares that "there is not a girl in the world, normally constituted, who can take three cocks in her ass"1. There are 1.4 million videos with sadistic practices: "choking" (strangulation), "bukkake" (dozens of men penetrate a woman and then ejaculate on her), "gangbang" (men penetrate a woman in several orifices simultaneously), "gagging" (suffocation by deep fellatio), "torture", "electrocution", "surprise" (surprise penetration, which corresponds to rape)... There are also 200,000 videos based on urine jets (in the mouth, on the body, etc.), which is degrading treatment. The physical abuse resulting from these acts of extreme violence, such as prolapse (exteriorization of internal organs due to an anus or vagina destroyed by brutal penetrations), even become a sought-after category with 21,000 videos. All these acts, through the cruelty and suffering caused, have real repercussions on the physical and mental health of the people who suffer them, and for some they meet the legal definition of acts of torture and barbarity.

So THIS is their independent study of online porn. Note first that they don't actually describe their methodology in any detail, which is a problem, but let's set that aside for the moment. More importantly, do you know what's missing from this description? Any percentages. That 90% figure? They never measured a 90% violence rate. They didn't measure percentages of anything.

In fact, all it appears they did is type in key word searches and see how many results pop up. They don't compare these results to the total number of videos. And chances are they didn't screen for duplicates or even test to see whether the videos with certain key words even have the content described by the key word. This is something you might have noticed even regarding this forum. You can put tags in threads you create, but there is no automatic mechanism to ensure that tags are accurate. Nobody really bothers with fake tags here both because this forum is unimportant and because people don't primarily find threads by searching tags. But on a platform where tags are a key method for searching for content, you should expect people to try to game the system by using incorrect flags to try to pop up in more searches. So search results based on tags aren't necessarily an accurate indicator of the actual content. But again, even if it were, the HCE "study" DID NOT conclude that 90% of online porn is violent, because they did not measure any percentages.
 
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No, it does not say that.

From the synopsis of the report (which you linked to), page 2, heading 1:

Des violences physiques et sexuelles dans 90 % des vidéos en ligne

Google translation: Physical and sexual violence in 90% online videos


First couple of lines of The Guardian's article on the HCE report:

As much as 90% of pornographic content online features verbal, physical and sexual violence towards women.....

I'll give you a chance to respond before I move on to the rest of your post.
 
That doesn't answer my point.

Your post assumed that the report was only talking about physical violence. That directly answers why you think the figure 'incredible'.

You talk about videos that you say aren't violent - perhaps you'd like to explain how you verify that the performers are fully consenting and haven't been forced or manipulated into something they would rather not do.

Unless, of course, you think sexual violence is a myth?
 
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Evidently occurring right here on ISF?

Laurence Rossignol: "There is a lot of male resistance to making these kinds of topics political issues."
 
Your post assumed that the report was only talking about physical violence. That directly answers why you think the figure 'incredible'.

You talk about videos that you say aren't violent - perhaps you'd like to explain how you verify that the performers are fully consenting and haven't been forced or manipulated into something they would rather not do.

Unless, of course, you think sexual violence is a myth?

Perhaps you could explain how all the gay, non-violent straight, non-violent lesbian, solo and fetish videos only comprise 10% of the total?
Burden of proof, you know: it's your claim so up to you to provide the evidence.
 

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