Cont: Roe v Wade overturned - this is some BS part II

[thaiboxerken]

I think the democrats were comfortable with the status quo, but were also afraid of losing some votes by codifying Rvw.

 

[Segnosaur]

I think the democrats were comfortable with the status quo, but were also afraid of losing some votes by codifying Rvw.

Here's a question...

Would it even have mattered if the democrats had codified RvW?

Given the current supreme court, I could easily see them finding some excuse to toss out laws protecting abortion rights nationwide. (Remember, these were the people that used legal "knowledge" from a guy who once prosecuted witches in order to revoke abortion rights)

 

[plague311]

Democrats made a poor choice not to do it when they had the power. Who knows when they'll have the power again, hopefully next year.

Both sides were "benefiting" from the status quo of RvW, it was something to campaign on. Now, it is just a mess. It's definitely something to motivate people to vote against the Repugs, but still a was a poor choice (not to codify it when they could) with a high cost to people.

Maybe I'm confused on how passing a law works but when did the Dems have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate? Doesn't it require 60 votes to get around the filibuster?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Good point. I hadn't thought of the permanent filibuster. Looks like abortion rights may never get codified. It doesn't mean the Democrats shouldn't try, though.

 

[Segnosaur]

Maybe I'm confused on how passing a law works but when did the Dems have a filibuster proof majority in the Senate? Doesn't it require 60 votes to get around the filibuster?

Well first of all, they actually had a fillibuster-proof majority in late 2009 (after increasing the number of senate seats in the 2008 election, winning a byelection, and having one senator change parties.) That's how they got the affordable care act passed. (Plus, there is the possibility that some "moderate" republicans, like Collins, might have voted in favor of an abortion rights bill, or at least abstained from it.)

Secondly, even if they didn't have a super-majority in theory democrats could have invoked the "nuclear option"... changing the rule of the senate to prevent a minority party from using the filibuster to block legislation (much like Moscow Mitch did in changing the rules to confirm supreme court justices.)

 

[Hercules56]

Well first of all, they actually had a fillibuster-proof majority in late 2009 (after increasing the number of senate seats in the 2008 election, winning a byelection, and having one senator change parties.) That's how they got the affordable care act passed...

Wrong. Democrats lost their filibuster proof majority before it was time to vote on the affordable Care act and therefore had to do the reconciliation process.

Unfortunately reconciliation cannot be used to make roe v Wade federal law.

 

[acbytesla]

Wrong. Democrats lost their filibuster proof majority before it was time to vote on the affordable Care act and therefore had to do the reconciliation process.

Unfortunately reconciliation cannot be used to make roe v Wade federal law.

Neither Democrats or Republicans have had a filibuster proof majority in a very long time.

 

[Stacyhs]

AZ has gathered enough signatures to put abortion rights on the ballot:

The Arizona secretary of state’s office said Monday that it had certified 577,971 signatures — far above the required number that the coalition supporting the ballot measure had to submit in order to put the question before voters.

The coalition, Arizona for Abortion Access, said it is the most signatures validated for a citizens initiative in state history.

The issue already is set to go before voters this year in Colorado, Florida, Maryland, Nevada, New York and South Dakota.

Arizona law currently bans abortions after 15 weeks. The ban, which was signed into law in 2022, includes exceptions in cases of medical emergencies but has restrictions on non-surgical abortion. It also requires an ultrasound before an abortion is done, as well as parental consent for minors.

The proposed amendment would allow abortions until a fetus could survive outside the womb, typically around 24 weeks, with exceptions to save the mother’s life or to protect her physical or mental health. It would restrict the state from adopting or enforcing any law that would prohibit access to the procedure.

Organizers said they initially submitted 823,685 signatures, more than double the 383,923 required from registered voters.

Trump said abortion rights are no longer a big issue.

 

[catsmate]

AZ has gathered enough signatures to put abortion rights on the ballot:

Will the Republicans try and block this? Or gratefully abdicate responsibility?

Trump said abortion rights are no longer a big issue.

Trump says a lot of ****.

 

[Stacyhs]

Will the Republicans try and block this? Or gratefully abdicate responsibility?

No doubt they'll fight it as the GOP has the majority in the state legislature.

Trump says a lot of ****.

No ****.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Do what Florida does, just completely ignore it.

We voted Felon voting rights in here a few years back. DeSantis basically just went "LOL whatever" and Felons still can't vote in Florida.

 

[acbytesla]

AZ has gathered enough signatures to put abortion rights on the ballot:

Will the Republicans try and block this?

They already did. This is going on the ballot.

Or gratefully abdicate responsibility?

Nothing grateful about it. And it really is impossible for them to walk away from this issue

Trump said abortion rights are no longer a big issue.

Trump says a lot of ****.

Yep. I'm not sure Trump even believes this. Every single time Abortion rights has appeared on the ballot since SCOTUS overturned Roe, they have been passed. Even in the buckle of the Bible belt. I'd be shocked if this doesn't pass in November and very possibly lead to Democratic victories in the state.

 

[acbytesla]

Do what Florida does, just completely ignore it.

We voted Felon voting rights in here a few years back. DeSantis basically just went "LOL whatever" and Felons still can't vote in Florida.

Are you sure? How does Florida enforce it?

 

[Aridas]

AZ has gathered enough signatures to put abortion rights on the ballot:





Trump said abortion rights are no longer a big issue.

One thing that strikes me is the sheer number of signatures that were counted as not verified. That rather suggests a serious attempt to prevent this from qualifying by using underhanded means. Hardly a certainty, of course, but it is pretty suspicious before investigation.

 

[acbytesla]

One thing that strikes me is the sheer number of signatures that were counted as not verified. That rather suggests a serious attempt to prevent this from qualifying by using underhanded means. Hardly a certainty, of course, but it is pretty suspicious before investigation.

I don't think so. That number dwarfed the number of valid signatures required. It takes time to check that many signatures. That there was another 200,000 plus signatures that hadn't as yet been checked isn't as much of surprise as you might think. They just announced it at the deadline before the ballots were ordered from the printers.

 

[Darat]

I don't think so. That number dwarfed the number of valid signatures required. It takes time to check that many signatures. That there was another 200,000 plus signatures that hadn't as yet been checked isn't as much of surprise as you might think. They just announced it at the deadline before the ballots were ordered from the printers.

I'd say that once they had verified enough signatures to meet the number required it's a waste of resources to continue verifying signatures.

 

[TalosMarr]

AZ has gathered enough signatures to put abortion rights on the ballot:





Trump said abortion rights are no longer a big issue.

Even if we the citizens of Arizona pass it, I have no faith that the GOP dominated legislature will do it. We passed legalization of weed 5 or 6 times before the legislature actually did it. There is little or no actual power with the voter, as far as legislation goes, in Arizona.

I have no idea what the process is since all of these bills listed the exact legal changes that were supposed to be entered into our law, but somehow the legislature always ignored the prescribed changes or blocked them from from going into effect.

 

[Aridas]

I don't think so. That number dwarfed the number of valid signatures required. It takes time to check that many signatures. That there was another 200,000 plus signatures that hadn't as yet been checked isn't as much of surprise as you might think. They just announced it at the deadline before the ballots were ordered from the printers.

I'd say that once they had verified enough signatures to meet the number required it's a waste of resources to continue verifying signatures.

To be clear, as I said, it's hardly some certainty. There certainly are innocuous possibilities that would be reasonable to just assume if there was nothing else in play.

The GOP in general and Arizona GOP in particular have very recent and deeply problematic records, though. There's plenty of reason to believe that they would be entirely on board with engaging in underhanded means to try to get what they want, up to and including breaking laws again.

It's not like it's a mystery why Arizona Republicans would employ a wildly unqualified company that just happened to be led by a vociferous election denier to try to overturn an election after having repeated failed to do so using and abusing the normal recount process.

 

[KDLarsen]

Are you sure? How does Florida enforce it?

Basically the state legislature changed the law, so it reads that felons have to pay back all court costs associated with their case before their voting rights is restored.

Since Florida's court system runs on a non-subsidised funding scheme, those costs can be quite exorbitant, leading to few if any felons being able to pay and thus restore their rights.

Thus the letter of the ballot iniative is upheld, but the spirit of it has been taken out back and shot.

 

[kookbreaker]

Are you sure? How does Florida enforce it?

Yes. First they lead plated it by saying felons had to pay off any "court fees" before they would be allowed to vote. No, they weren't gonna tell you what you owed.

Then when a few tried to vote Desantis went on a huge rampage and press whirlwind by arresting a bunch of them and saying he had found voter fraud. Turns out state officials had told those voters they were allowed to vote and Desantis had to quietly drop all the charges - but he got the effect he wanted by intimidating any felons who wanted to vote.

Desantis is facing multiple lawsuits over his antics but what does he care as the state budget will pay if the judges he packed into the courts actually rule against him.