stamenflicker
Muse
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 869
The logical argument put forth by most creationists is that anything that begins to exist has cause. Note that is significantly different that everything that exists has cause. Since modern science seems to be leaning toward things "beginning" to exist, the question is moot to most ID'rs.
Flick
Flick
slingblade
Unregistered
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2005
- Messages
- 23,466
I rather like the notion of the expanding-collapsing universe. It gets real big, implodes on itself, and begins again, ad infinitum.
God-shmod.
God-shmod.
Oh, so there was a time before the Big Bang then?
Surley (no not Shirley) as soon as a thing begins to exist it exists. Don't see what this has to do with the question.
Didn't know that God was one of the Shmod clan . . . .interesting!
Come on, don't stir, give me an answer (pretty please)
If God is in fact the author of reality, how many realities does there have to be? Either that or, can you say infinite regression?
OK, Change the wording around. I take it that you belive God is a reality, so who (or what) authored the reality of God?
Yes - I can say infinite regression. Can you say Peggy Babcock (fast 10 times)?
Huh-What?
Thinker
- Joined
- May 6, 2005
- Messages
- 153
If you believe in eternity, then it doesn't require the foundation of existence to have a cause. In which case it only requires one God which, is the foundation for everything else.
BJQ87
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2005
- Messages
- 473
Because God didn't begin to exist. The answer to the question of this thread is, I believe, no-one/nothing. Could this be accomplished without violating the principle of sufficient reason? I don't think so. However, would the principle of sufficient reason still hold as authoritive if there was a "time" when time did not exist? I don't think so.
Or I could say, what does it matter? If God violates the PSR thats because he's God, whereas the universe seems to be bound by such things.
(still have not decided yet whether or not I believe God limits His own power or not, power as from a human perspective that is)
Tricky
Briefly immortal
Yes, but belief in eternity doesn't support the idea of a God either. There is nothing about the concept of eternity which either requires or explains the existence of such an entity.
But then there would be no need for evolution or the Big Bang, because its potential will have been realized, long before it got started. In which case we must ask, realized by what?
Tricky
Briefly immortal
Whose need? Your need to feel important in the universe? You can speculate until your dying day about the needs and "realizations" of an entity for which you have no evidence. It makes not one whit of difference, except to you.
What makes you think the universe "needs" anything?
Is a newborn baby without any needs?
Tricky
Briefly immortal
We humans do, but why would God need anything? What kind of wimpy sniveling creator-of-everything is dependant on others for anything?
No Iacchus, your fart-on-ice analogies always break down to your own very human and very self-centered wishes and needs. Or do you presume to speak for God?