The Tim Walz campaign, and the ******** attacks upon him.

Vance's problem is that he has to go all in, and, as such, has gone in way over his head.

Now he's going after the General (Barry MacCaffery)...

The media outlets seem to be all-in too. But Sergeant Scribbles (as I understand we're now supposed to call Vance) seems to be risking a pretty fierce firestorm if he's going after a decorated high-ranking combat commander from the comparative safety of his air-conditioned typing job.

True, but a sizeable proportion of the US electorate now has the idea that Walz is guilty of stolen valour whilst Vance is a seasoned, hardened warrior with decades of in-theatre experience behind enemy lines. :mad:

The campaign has pivoted to swift-boating to distract from the fact that it was Vance who embellished his record.

I've never served in uniform. But I've spent a considerable portion of my career contracting for the military. This has required me to be in harm's way a couple times, to the extent of wearing body armor and "safety not guaranteed," etc. I've been within earshot of combat—distant booms—but I would never be so pretentious and disrespectful as to say I've served in a combat zone because it's simply not the truth. My friend and fellow aerospace engineering student in college died at the battle of Khafji, earning a posthumous Silver Star. My brother in law retires from the Navy this year after 20 years of service that included leading boarding teams for pirate interdiction. These are the people I consider to have served in combat. I just drank bad coffee and hoped the stuff I was responsible for worked as planned.

What I learned from that experience, though, is that bragging up one's combat service record and combat experience to another service member is really kinda something only the toy soldiers do. From what I've seen and heard, if you've actually been in real combat, the whole phallus-measuring thing seems to fall by the wayside because (1) someone else within earshot will always have seen more or worse combat than either of you, and (2) it's a qualitative proposition, not a quantitative measure. If you've actually been in combat, you are once and forever different and you don't need to talk about it. I think this is probably why Vance is getting dragged so hard by veterans. Those of you who have served in combat are welcome to correct me.

The annoying thing to me about the swiftboating is that nobody cares that Captain Bonespurs evaded the draft but hey let's denigrate the service of this guy who actually did serve his country for political points. Nothing Trump ever did is held against him by his sycophants.
Vance's sudden concern for military service is staggering, given trump's previous comments on US servicemen who fought and died.

Oh, and I'm still amazed the GQP managed to get away with swiftboating Kerry in the first place, given their own candidate's less-than-stellar military record.

Donald Trump never lied about or embellished his nonexistent military record. He pulled strings to stay out of Vietnam. Nobody actually believes he had "bone spurs," but that's different than saying he was a combat soldier when he wasn't.

However, we can compile a very lengthy list of all the other things Trump has bragged about that are either untrue or suspect, and which Trump has labored mightily to hide. Is he really a billionaire? Did he really get super high marks in college?

Similarly, no one believes that J.D. Vance rose from rags to riches. Enough people have fact-checked Hillbilly Elegy to question that narrative.

Now the tiff seems to be that Walz wasn't really a football coach; he was only an assistant coach. My high school track team had a head coach and three assistant coaches. They were all "coach," and disrespecting their authority, dedication, and skill would swiftly get you kicked off the team. The GOP seems insanely desperate to discredit Walz' résumé as a distraction from the glaring holes in their own candidates' records.
 
This all makes (a terrible, terrible kind of sense) when you understand that to the Right "hero" is exactly like "criminal." It's not actions you commit, it's a demographic you are part of.

Vance is a "hero" and Walz isn't for the exact same reason a poor black person smoking pot is a criminal thug but a middle aged white granola mom smoking pot isn't.
 
The media outlets seem to be all-in too. But Sergeant Scribbles (as I understand we're now supposed to call Vance) seems to be risking a pretty fierce firestorm if he's going after a decorated high-ranking combat commander from the comparative safety of his air-conditioned typing job.



The campaign has pivoted to swift-boating to distract from the fact that it was Vance who embellished his record.

I've never served in uniform. But I've spent a considerable portion of my career contracting for the military. This has required me to be in harm's way a couple times, to the extent of wearing body armor and "safety not guaranteed," etc. I've been within earshot of combat—distant booms—but I would never be so pretentious and disrespectful as to say I've served in a combat zone because it's simply not the truth. My friend and fellow aerospace engineering student in college died at the battle of Khafji, earning a posthumous Silver Star. My brother in law retires from the Navy this year after 20 years of service that included leading boarding teams for pirate interdiction. These are the people I consider to have served in combat. I just drank bad coffee and hoped the stuff I was responsible for worked as planned.

What I learned from that experience, though, is that bragging up one's combat service record and combat experience to another service member is really kinda something only the toy soldiers do. From what I've seen and heard, if you've actually been in real combat, the whole phallus-measuring thing seems to fall by the wayside because (1) someone else within earshot will always have seen more or worse combat than either of you, and (2) it's a qualitative proposition, not a quantitative measure. If you've actually been in combat, you are once and forever different and you don't need to talk about it. I think this is probably why Vance is getting dragged so hard by veterans. Those of you who have served in combat are welcome to correct me.




Donald Trump never lied about or embellished his nonexistent military record. He pulled strings to stay out of Vietnam. Nobody actually believes he had "bone spurs," but that's different than saying he was a combat soldier when he wasn't.

However, we can compile a very lengthy list of all the other things Trump has bragged about that are either untrue or suspect, and which Trump has labored mightily to hide. Is he really a billionaire? Did he really get super high marks in college?

Similarly, no one believes that J.D. Vance rose from rags to riches. Enough people have fact-checked Hillbilly Elegy to question that narrative.

Now the tiff seems to be that Walz wasn't really a football coach; he was only an assistant coach. My high school track team had a head coach and three assistant coaches. They were all "coach," and disrespecting their authority, dedication, and skill would swiftly get you kicked off the team. The GOP seems insanely desperate to discredit Walz' résumé as a distraction from the glaring holes in their own candidates' records.

Spot on. I don't know anyone I went to the South Atlantic with that tries to use any of it for bragging right or to big themselves up.
I had uncles that variously fought in the Battle of the River Plate and Med and went ashore on D-Day. they had stories about it but not particularly about what they did.
Same for my Grandad who was on the Western Front in WW1.
Best example of all was Stanley Hollis. He was the only man to win a VC on D-Day and in his later years was the Landlord of the Hollywell View pub in Liverton Mines. My Grandad knew him well. He never mentioned his exploits at all.
 
Trump may claim Walz abandoned his troops and never fought in a war.

Meanwhile Trump just lied about almost dying in a helicopter crash with Willie Brown.
 
Trump may claim Walz abandoned his troops and never fought in a war.

Meanwhile Trump just lied about almost dying in a helicopter crash with Willie Brown.

He was never even in a helicopter with Willie Brown. He's confusing him with Gov. Jerry Brown. Understandable as they look so much alike! :rolleyes:
Trouble is, Jerry Brown says they were never in any danger.

But, ya know, Trump has a fantastic memory and aced his cognitive exam twice like no one has ever seen before.
 
And in a 1997 interview he said that avoiding STDs when he was single was his personal Vietnam and made him feel like a brave soldier.

Does that mean he wore a condom when bedding anonymous women? Or that he bravely risked their safety and his?
 
Does that mean he wore a condom when bedding anonymous women? Or that he bravely risked their safety and his?


He said he was "lucky", so I'm guessing the latter.

"It's amazing, I can't even believe it. I've been so lucky in terms of that whole world, it is a dangerous world out there. It's like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider," Trump said in the interview when Howard Stern asked how he handled making sure he wasn't contracting STDs from the women he was sleeping with.

The business-mogul-turned-politician elaborated on the fact in the interview, calling women's vaginas "potential landmines" and saying "there's some real danger there."
 
He does seem to have a chronic problem with Brown people.



I still like how that was a test to detect brain damage, not any sort of intelligence test.

Well, Willie Brown had a much more entertaining cameo in "GOdfather 3" then Trump did in 'Home Alone 2".
 
I have to admit, I am laughing at some of the online stuff about how much Walz looks like Don Rickles. No debate, he does resemble Mr Warmth at times.
 
I have to admit, I am laughing at some of the online stuff about how much Walz looks like Don Rickles. No debate, he does resemble Mr Warmth at times.


You’re right, he really does. And at this point I’d say C.P.O. Sharkey’s military record outshines Vance’s.
 
I have to admit, I am laughing at some of the online stuff about how much Walz looks like Don Rickles. No debate, he does resemble Mr Warmth at times.

I like the one where if you take away Vance's beard he looks like he is going to steal PeeWee Herman's bicycle.
 
He does seem to have a chronic problem with Brown people.



I still like how that was a test to detect brain damage, not any sort of intelligence test.

If there's one claim any debater should be prepared for, it's that one (which he could easily be goaded into saying.) "It was a screening test, you idiot. As easy as 'How many fingers am I holding up?' to a person who got knocked out!"
 
I've seen some bizarre political attacks in my life, but attacking someone's service in the military when that person served 24 years? And then chaired the Veterans Affairs Committee in Congress. What's Vance trying to say? That Tim Walz hasn't done enough for his country or for veterans? This only makes Walz look better. He is only putting a spotlight on it.

Does he really think a veteran looking at Walz's service record and go, this is a reason not to vote for Walz?
 
The media outlets seem to be all-in too. But Sergeant Scribbles (as I understand we're now supposed to call Vance) seems to be risking a pretty fierce firestorm if he's going after a decorated high-ranking combat commander from the comparative safety of his air-conditioned typing job.



The campaign has pivoted to swift-boating to distract from the fact that it was Vance who embellished his record.

I've never served in uniform. But I've spent a considerable portion of my career contracting for the military. This has required me to be in harm's way a couple times, to the extent of wearing body armor and "safety not guaranteed," etc. I've been within earshot of combat—distant booms—but I would never be so pretentious and disrespectful as to say I've served in a combat zone because it's simply not the truth. My friend and fellow aerospace engineering student in college died at the battle of Khafji, earning a posthumous Silver Star. My brother in law retires from the Navy this year after 20 years of service that included leading boarding teams for pirate interdiction. These are the people I consider to have served in combat. I just drank bad coffee and hoped the stuff I was responsible for worked as planned.

What I learned from that experience, though, is that bragging up one's combat service record and combat experience to another service member is really kinda something only the toy soldiers do. From what I've seen and heard, if you've actually been in real combat, the whole phallus-measuring thing seems to fall by the wayside because (1) someone else within earshot will always have seen more or worse combat than either of you, and (2) it's a qualitative proposition, not a quantitative measure. If you've actually been in combat, you are once and forever different and you don't need to talk about it. I think this is probably why Vance is getting dragged so hard by veterans. Those of you who have served in combat are welcome to correct me.




Donald Trump never lied about or embellished his nonexistent military record. He pulled strings to stay out of Vietnam. Nobody actually believes he had "bone spurs," but that's different than saying he was a combat soldier when he wasn't.

However, we can compile a very lengthy list of all the other things Trump has bragged about that are either untrue or suspect, and which Trump has labored mightily to hide. Is he really a billionaire? Did he really get super high marks in college?

Similarly, no one believes that J.D. Vance rose from rags to riches. Enough people have fact-checked Hillbilly Elegy to question that narrative.

Now the tiff seems to be that Walz wasn't really a football coach; he was only an assistant coach. My high school track team had a head coach and three assistant coaches. They were all "coach," and disrespecting their authority, dedication, and skill would swiftly get you kicked off the team. The GOP seems insanely desperate to discredit Walz' résumé as a distraction from the glaring holes in their own candidates' records.

The repugs hardest lines of attack have always tended to originate from their people looking in the mirror.
 

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