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Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

Poem said:
This would be a problem for those that think nothing of children watching porn. It's worth reminding you that showing porn to a child is sexual abuse. We don't need to speculate further.
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hahaha

like i said i find the way it’s framed dishonest. it’s not more honest when you do it to me directly
 
dirtywick said:
attack the argument not the arguer is what i was always taught
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My post wasn't necessarily personal. It's a fair question. Barnardo's will still have a job to do whether porn is banned or not, but porn consumers have a vested interest in pooh-poohing their evidence.
 
Poem said:
My post wasn't necessarily personal. It's a fair question. Barnardo's will still have a job to do whether porn is banned or not, but porn consumers have a vested interest in pooh-poohing their evidence.
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it also wasn’t necessarily not personal. it doesn’t matter either way, people’s various motivations are unimportant to me. i can tell you that the only reason i’m involved in this thread at all is because i’ve been on a porn site before and what is described didn’t correlate with my experience. so in that sense maybe consumers do have something to add.

anyway i feel it’s the second time in this thread i’ve been assigned some kind of personal motivation that isn’t there and while it doesn’t bother me, it does effect me in the sense that i have less respect for people that do that.

finally, assuming people’s motivations is a waste of time. because you can’t think of a reason barnardo would have to distort the facts doesn’t mean there’s not one there or that it’s not happening. best to stick to the arguments
 
dirtywick said:
it also wasn’t necessarily not personal. it doesn’t matter either way, people’s various motivations are unimportant to me. i can tell you that the only reason i’m involved in this thread at all is because i’ve been on a porn site before and what is described didn’t correlate with my experience. so in that sense maybe consumers do have something to add.

anyway i feel it’s the second time in this thread i’ve been assigned some kind of personal motivation that isn’t there and while it doesn’t bother me, it does effect me in the sense that i have less respect for people that do that.

finally, assuming people’s motivations is a waste of time. because you can’t think of a reason barnardo would have to distort the facts doesn’t mean there’s not one there or that it’s not happening. best to stick to the arguments
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Thinking such content is acceptable is a choice to ignore severe warnings and side with mainstream pornographers. Have you been won over by experts arguments from porn advocates?

Under UK law such material is illegal on DVD and Blu Ray. That is factual.
 
Poem said:
Any society that values sex as special. There might be some communities that do so, but I rather doubt that extends to whole countries.

Louise Perry has spoken of the current culture of sex disenchantment.
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But can you cite a real-life example? You, not Louise Perry.
 
sackett said:
But can you cite a real-life example? You, not Louise Perry.
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As I said - any community that values sex as 'special'.

Christian communities that strictly follow Christ are a possibility...in reality, most Christians consume as much porn as non-Christians.
 
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dirtywick said:
no i just haven’t been won over by your arguments.
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You do accept, surely, that:

‘Cute schoolgirl gets ******... etc etc...

were not previously lawful anywhere in civilized societies? Such material was and is never broadcast on UK or American public TV? Correct?

Yet you think it's lawful...on the net? What happened?
 
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Poem said:
Last time we spoke you were under the impression that such material was not 'normalized' and that it was being dealt with. It isn't and it remains 'normal'. The UK Online safety Bill will not make any difference:
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It isn't and it is.
Poem said:
CARE: A controversial part of the Bill would have criminalised content deemed 'legal but harmful' but this section was removed by the government last year.

From the House of Commons Library:

On 28 November 2022, the Government announced plans to amend the Bill, including the removal of the “legal but harmful” provisions for adults to protect freedom of expression
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That is not talking about what is already illegal which is what you asked about i.e. any porn that features children or gives the appearance of doing so. That is and has been for quite some time (since at least 1978 in E&W legislation) completely and utterly illegal in the UK, the addition of animation, computer created images and so on has been added over the years to try and keep up with technological advances. You will go to prison for up to 10 years if you are discovered to have downloaded or accessed porn that features children or people pretending to be under the age of consent.
 
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Darat said:
It isn't and it is.


That is not talking about what is already illegal which is what you asked about i.e. any porn that features children or gives the appearance of doing so. That is and has been for quite some time (since at least 1978 in E&W legislation) completely and utterly illegal in the UK, the addition of animation, computer created images and so on has been added over the years to try and keep up with technological advances. You will go to prison for up to 10 years if you are discovered to have downloaded or accessed porn that features children or people pretending to be under the age of consent.
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My understanding, based on Barnardo's submission to the Online Safety Bill is that you are wrong. They state unambiguously that what's illegal on DVD and Blu Ray is rife or easy to view on mainstream sites.

Content that would be prohibited offline by the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification), making it illegal to own on DVD or Blu-Ray, is readily available on mainstream pornography sites. The BBFC will not classify any content as R18 if it is illegal, or material that is potentially harmful – for example because it depicts and/ or promotes child sexual abuse, incest, trafficking, torture, and harmful sexual acts. It includes material which promotes violent sexual activity, including breath restriction (strangulation), gagging and forced penetration, and depicts sexual activity with adult actors made to look like children: petite, young-looking performers made to look underage through props such as stuffed toys, lollipops and school uniforms. It also includes content which depicts sexual activity between family members, such as between fathers and daughters and brothers and sisters. This content is extremely harmful, promoting violence against women and girls, and sexualising children. Yet online, it is easy to view free of charge and currently lacks age-gating.
 
Poem said:
Why does Dame Vera Baird's assertion that rape has been effectively decriminalized in the UK need to be questioned but the sexual abuse scandal in US schools accepted as evidence of (limited) rape culture?
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One, that's an absurd non sequitur.

Two, everything needs to be questioned.

Three, if you question the allegations of sexual abuse in American public schools, you'll find that it is supported by good research. It's not just empty claims.

Four, a title of nobility doesn't impress me at all. Get out of here with this "dame" nonsense.

Five, you're not even questioning what I cited. In fact you just grabbed it and ran straight into another thread, waving it around like proof positive of whatever you're trying to claim there. Get back to me when you're actually wanting to question it, and I'll see what I can do about giving you satisfactory answers.

Six, you have yet to address my own issues with your claims of decriminalized rape in the UK. So maybe you deal with that first, before complaining about me not addressing questions you haven't actually raised.
 
Poem said:
You do accept, surely, that:

‘Cute schoolgirl gets ******... etc etc...

were not previously lawful anywhere in civilized societies? Such material was and is never broadcast on UK or American public TV? Correct?

Yet you think it's lawful...on the net? What happened?
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i think you’re moving the goalposts in the middle of your own post here. lawful anywhere in civilized societies and broadcast on public tv are two metrics.

this kind of deception appears to be rife in your sources
 
I think we're in an "Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, and therefore not worth paying any attention to" country.

Nothing in this thread resembles effective debate.
 
dirtywick said:
i think you’re moving the goalposts in the middle of your own post here. lawful anywhere in civilized societies and broadcast on public tv are two metrics.

this kind of deception appears to be rife in your sources
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Do you agree that under UK law, such content as I have been describing is illegal on DVD and Blu Ray? Just re-read #833. It's unambiguous.
 
Once more unto the etc.

Poem said:
As I said - any community that values sex as 'special'.

Christian communities that strictly follow Christ are a possibility...in reality, most Christians consume as much porn as non-Christians.
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Can't you name a real country or region, or even just a community, that does not have a rape culture?

Hypotheticals are kinda boring, don't you agree?
 
Poem said:
Do you agree that under UK law, such content as I have been describing is illegal on DVD and Blu Ray? Just re-read #833. It's unambiguous.
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it’s possible the uk has a law against that, so i’ll agree sure. i don’t find it relevant to anything i’ve said though.
 
Poem said:
My understanding, based on Barnardo's submission to the Online Safety Bill is that you are wrong. They state unambiguously that what's illegal on DVD and Blu Ray is rife or easy to view on mainstream sites.

Content that would be prohibited offline by the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification), making it illegal to own on DVD or Blu-Ray, is readily available on mainstream pornography sites. The BBFC will not classify any content as R18 if it is illegal, or material that is potentially harmful – for example because it depicts and/ or promotes child sexual abuse, incest, trafficking, torture, and harmful sexual acts. It includes material which promotes violent sexual activity, including breath restriction (strangulation), gagging and forced penetration, and depicts sexual activity with adult actors made to look like children: petite, young-looking performers made to look underage through props such as stuffed toys, lollipops and school uniforms. It also includes content which depicts sexual activity between family members, such as between fathers and daughters and brothers and sisters. This content is extremely harmful, promoting violence against women and girls, and sexualising children. Yet online, it is easy to view free of charge and currently lacks age-gating.
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All such material is illegal to access if you are in the UK, just like it is illegal to sell it on DVD or Blu-ray. The fact that material is available does not alter that fact. It is illegal to murder someone in the UK yet we 1) still have murders and 2) don't get to prosecute people who commit what we call murder in other countries but we would prosecute someone in the UK for conspiracy to murder someone not in the UK if they are conspiring in the UK (for actual examples look up honour killings in the UK). If someone in the UK is behind a website that does have such illegal material they would be open to be prosecuted even if the websites are physically in another country. People have been prosecuted for such offences.
 
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