Merged 2024 Election Thread

[Tero]

Are you sure about that?
I keep on hearing that Biden being forced out and Harris taking over is a done deal, but I am skeptical.

I meant the Trump vs Kamala debate. It will be like Trump vs Hillary but without the creeping around.

 

[arthwollipot]

Are you sure about that?
I keep on hearing that Biden being forced out and Harris taking over is a done deal, but I am skeptical.

It's not that he's being "forced out". Only he can decide to not accept the nomination. People are trying to convince him to do that.

 

[marting]

Kimberly Gargoyle is what would make a Newsom nomination difficult, from what I understand.

Yep. And Newsom's dreams of somehow achieving POTUS status fails because it doesn't bring California. California will vote Democratic no matter who's on the ticket. Worse, California is seen by much of the other states as left wing and will taint any ticket with a California Democrat at the top. It's one of the reasons much of the party fears Harris should Biden step down.

And I say this as a Californian that will not vote for Trump.

 

[arthwollipot]

Speaking about Californians who will not vote for Trump.

You Can’t Fix Things by Not Voting
(Rebecca Watson, video (8:18) and transcript)

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Where do you get this from? It's impressive in the depth of thought that has gone into creating this fantasy.

There is even a constitutional amendment specifically for removing a President. Biden did a good job of removing Trump. Like McConnell he's just too old. That happens. It's one of the reasons America has to stop this descent into gerontocracy. It's one sign of a failing political system.

The Portland anarchists aren't Liberal.

That's an interesting assessment. It leads one to question who these folks from this highly radical and deeply Blue Democrat area support. So which side of the voting scale should one believe the "ANTIFA" folks are drawn to? I'll give you a hint. Biden once said ""Antifa is an idea not an organization." I think you know.

And the moral compass of the Republican party is a twice divorced, serial adulterer who lies constantly. Strange to claim the other side is lacking the moral compass.

As for maintaining power over what is best for the country, would that be like trying to keep the votes from being certified? That was the real coup attempt.

You see, you've moved the goalpost away from my topic of Liberal general views and why I don't see Liberals as being less than human to mainstream political candidates. It may surprise you to learn that I view both current candidates as immoral men. Only one of the two has policies I agree with though.

The modern MAGA cult is all about transference.

Nope. It's about returning our country to economic prosperity and security while ensuring peace and prosperity for the rest of the World thru communication, Military strength and leadership, again. It's about relieving the pressure from low income families so they're able to afford food for their families and a home to live in without having to make hard choices or having off brand breakfast cereal for dinner. It's about hands off the children. Republicans don't care what kind of weird sex you're having, we just want you to stop telling children about it. What a shocker. I'll bet you thought it was about gas chambers and thousand year reichs.

Every accusation is a confession. They have adopted Goebbels full thoatedly.

That's straight out of the Liberal playbook. Go ahead, tell me how Trump is the one with Dementia in age related cognitive decline and how Biden has "stamina". Nancy Pelosi would be proud. (as those were her talking points immediately after the debate, but now I'm not so sure, things change)

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I didn't ignore it, it's just bollocks.

If he'd won a Nobel Prize he'd be on this list: https://theprint.in/science/nobel-l...ti-vaxxers-calls-covid-a-lab-accident/665710/

Your shtick of comparing Trump to Hitler is as stupid as dudalb's promises of civil war.

4 years of Trump didn't destroy anything and 4 more years won't either.

1 million Americans who died of Covid might object to that, except they can't because their dead.

Still, it's not like there's anything you can do about it, and denying the threat has no consequences for you.

The selfishness of "it won't affect me so I don't care". Reminds me of this.

Your shtick is becoming toxic. Next you'll be a full-on Trump supporter, as well as denying Global Warming and Covid.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

1 million Americans who died of Covid might object to that, except they can't because their dead.

Still, it's not like there's anything you can do about it, and denying the threat has no consequences for you.

The selfishness of "it won't affect me so I don't care". Reminds me of this.

Your shtick is becoming toxic. Next you'll be a full-on Trump supporter, as well as denying Global Warming and Covid.

Interesting link. Very telling, as within so without. I'm curious about your opinion on Trump and his supporters inasmuch as per the link you provided. I'm a Republican and I support Trump (mostly for his policies) but I think it would be an interesting discussion if you'd be willing to reveal what evidence you believe equates Trump/Republicans with Nazis and sympathizers. I'm very proud of my family history. One Grandfather fought in the WW2 Pacific campaign against Japan and my other fought in the European theater against Nazis. I'd certainly be willing to listen to any evidence that would prevent me and my family from voting for some Ideology from WW2 that I absolutely detest.

 

[angrysoba]

Interesting link. Very telling, as within so without. I'm curious about your opinion on Trump and his supporters inasmuch as per the link you provided. I'm a Republican and I support Trump (mostly for his policies) but I think it would be an interesting discussion if you'd be willing to reveal what evidence you believe equates Trump/Republicans with Nazis and sympathizers. I'm very proud of my family history. One Grandfather fought in the WW2 Pacific campaign against Japan and my other fought in the European theater against Nazis. I'd certainly be willing to listen to any evidence that would prevent me and my family from voting for some Ideology from WW2 that I absolutely detest.

Well, his Vice Presidential pick said he was like America's Hitler, and it seems Trump assumed it was a compliment.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Well, his Vice Presidential pick said he was like America's Hitler, and it seems Trump assumed it was a compliment.

That's interesting but it's an opinion. (JD Vance's at the time) Everyone can have an opinion and it need not be based on reality. An opinion can be based on a false narrative promoted in the Media, kinda like the "Bloodbath" hoax as well as the "Very fine people" hoax. Those were false narratives created by omitting context and the Media was complicit. I was looking for specific evidence of what Trump and his supporters have done to be considered Nazis and sympathizers. I already know about the Jan 6th protest that turned into a violent mob. I've seen evidence of violent mobs before on both sides. Yet while I think we will agree there are crazy people on both extremes, those folks don't define either party or their Ideology.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

We only used to see the good bits.

That was a loooong time ago.

My hopes for America were dashed when Kennedy was assassinated. Strange how one lunatic with a rifle can change the course of history.

People think individuals don't matter, that one president is as good an another - but it isn't true. The difference between a Trump presidency and whoever the Democrat candidate is will be dramatic.

This reminds me of the last episode of Babylon 5, "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars".

The second record retrieved is dated one hundred years later. It is an educational stellarcast, a discussion among three university faculty members delving into the history of the Interstellar Alliance - a century after its founding. In particular, the discussion turns to the legacy of Sheridan and Delenn, as one of the panelists asks if their accomplishments have been overrated..

The discussion pivots to Delenn rejecting her advanced age as ridiculously improbable, but there is a sudden alarm as someone else intrudes the studio: Delenn herself, well over a century old, followed by aides. Frail but still able to challenge the panelists with choice words defending her husband's deeds, states that perhaps they are the ones who are overrating themselves.

 

[angrysoba]

That's interesting but it's an opinion. (JD Vance's at the time) Everyone can have an opinion and it need not be based on reality. An opinion can be based on a false narrative promoted in the Media, kinda like the "Bloodbath" hoax as well as the "Very fine people" hoax. Those were false narratives created by omitting context and the Media was complicit. I was looking for specific evidence of what Trump and his supporters have done to be considered Nazis and sympathizers. I already know about the Jan 6th protest that turned into a violent mob. I've seen evidence of violent mobs before on both sides. Yet while I think we will agree there are crazy people on both extremes, those folks don't define either party or their Ideology.

Well, yes, JD Vance said it and I think he has revised his view by saying he got his ideas from watching CNN (which is definitely a strike against anyone - don't form your opinions from watching cable, people!). The second part of what I said about Trump seeing the Hitler comparison as a compliment was a joke I stole from the New Yorker, I think.

Do I think he's similar to Hitler or the Nazis? No, I don't, although I would be interested to know what your grandfather's would have thought of a politician using "America First" as a slogan. The pre-WWII environment tainted that phrase. That said, I don't think Trump really has the ideological consistency that they had.

Maybe a better comparison would be to Mussolini in the sense that he has an authoritarian/strong-man streak to him. He's also someone who I wouldn't trust around a democratic process because of what we saw on January 6th, and his constant attempts to badger governors and the courts, and his own VP pick to overturn the election. He has constantly sown mistrust in every democratic election he has entered. For me, he has done enough to show that people should have rejected him from ever running again, but politics is show business for ugly people and he's truly cut out for it, so he has an army of lickspittle sycophants and grifters trying to ride his coat-tails to fame.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Well, his Vice Presidential pick said he was like America's Hitler, and it seems Trump assumed it was a compliment.

And Mike Pence said:-

“I believe anyone that puts themselves over the Constitution should never be president of the United States and anyone who asks someone else to put them over the Constitution should never be president of the United States again”...

“In each of these cases, Donald Trump is pursuing and articulating an agenda that is at odds with the conservative agenda that we governed on during our four years. And that’s why I cannot in conscience endorse Donald Trump in this campaign,”

Guess who else put himself above the constitution.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I already know about the Jan 6th protest that turned into a violent mob. I've seen evidence of violent mobs before on both sides. Yet while I think we will agree there are crazy people on both extremes, those folks don't define either party or their Ideology.

But when they are being whipped up into a frenzy by the party's leader, and its members fall in line behind him, it does.

I'm a Republican and I support Trump (mostly for his policies)... I'm very proud of my family history. One Grandfather fought in the WW2 Pacific campaign against Japan and my other fought in the European theater against Nazis.

You know Trump doesn't agree with getting involved in wars, right? He'll piss all over your family's history by letting Putin take Ukraine, maybe even help him. And then who's next - Alaska?

But you don't care because he has some policies you like. Deplorable.

What other reasons do you have for supporting Trump?

 

[arthwollipot]

Nope. It's about returning our country to economic prosperity and security while ensuring peace and prosperity for the rest of the World thru communication, Military strength and leadership, again.

What an absolute pile of donkey's balls.

America is more secure and prosperous now than it was during any of Trump's reign. Trump isn't a leader. He doesn't care what his followers do as long as they continue singing his praises. People have no value to him except inasmuch as they can aggrandise him.

It's about relieving the pressure from low income families so they're able to afford food for their families and a home to live in without having to make hard choices or having off brand breakfast cereal for dinner.

Trump doesn't give a flying **** about low income families. He likes rich people, gives tax breaks to rich people, takes donations from rich people and walks all over low income families like he doesn't even know they're there.

It's about hands off the children. Republicans don't care what kind of weird sex you're having, we just want you to stop telling children about it.

Oh, and when do you suggest telling your children about sex? When your 13-year old daughter comes home pregnant?

What a shocker. I'll bet you thought it was about gas chambers and thousand year reichs.

That's apparently what VD Vance thought. See? Transference. Everything MAGA cultists accuse their opponents of, they are guilty of themselves.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Republicans have never heard of the Law of Diminishing Returns..

If you have the biggest military by spending by far in the world, spending even more is unlikely to change your power level.

If you have the highest incarnation rates in the world, getting even tougher on crime is unlikely to have much of an effect.

If you already effectively tax the wealthy and corporations lower than most, lowering taxes further won't boost anything but private wealth.

The basic attitude is:" if this is the Solution, then I want my Problem back."
Because it's never about solutions, it's about exploiting problems to keep doing what you want to do anyway, and don't care if it makes things worse m

 

[The Great Zaganza]

About Vance:

Trump picked him because he is nothing without Trump.
He wouldn't have won his Primary or Election without Trump's endorsement, and even with he didn't win by much compared to other Republicans.

Trump can destroy him with a Tweet, and there is no one there to catch Vance

 

[a_unique_person]

That's an interesting assessment. It leads one to question who these folks from this highly radical and deeply Blue Democrat area support. So which side of the voting scale should one believe the "ANTIFA" folks are drawn to? I'll give you a hint. Biden once said ""Antifa is an idea not an organization." I think you know.

You moving goalposts. I don't like Portland anarchists even if some of them might vote Democrat because they hate them less than Republicans.

You didn't respond to your crazy claim that there is a coup happening against Biden.

 

[Segnosaur]

Nope. It's about returning our country to economic prosperity...

Trump left office with a higher unemployment rate than when he started, and a falling GDP.

So, you fail.

"Oh but it was covid!" I hear the trump apologists complain. Yes covid, the pandemic that Trump totally botched (resulting in the excess deaths of thousands of Americans"

But, lets play that game.... lets pretend Trump was powerless to do anything against the pandemic. So lets ignore the year of the pandemic. Did you know that economic growth actually decreased in Trump's first 3 years, as compared to Obama's last three years?

See: Forbes

So in other words, Trump inherited an economy that had been growing steadily for years and.... slowed its growth.

Bravo Trump .

...and security while ensuring peace and prosperity for the rest of the World thru communication, Military strength...

Military Strength? Is that why trump took billions of dollars out of the military budget to build a useless border wall?

From: Politico
The Trump administration plans to sap money intended to build fighter jets, ships, vehicles and National Guard equipment in order to fund barriers on the U.S.-Mexico border...

Yup, real dedication to keeping a strong military there....

...and leadership, again.

Trump was regularly the topic of derision by leaders of other western nations. Not exactly a good 'leader' if other countries are mocking you behind your back.

It's about relieving the pressure from low income families....

The republican tax cuts for Millionaires had some tax cuts for low income families, but those were set to expire within a decade. And once they do, many will pay more in taxes than if the tax cuts were never passed.

Yet the tax cuts that benefitted the wealthy are permanent.

How does increased taxes on lower income families "help relieve pressure".

It's about hands off the children. Republicans don't care what kind of weird sex you're having, we just want you to stop telling children about it. What a shocker.

Ah yes, the republican Mantra "won't someone think of the children?"

Well, lets see:
- Republican (and Trump ally) Gym Jordan failed to investigate allegations of sexual assault when he was employed in academia
- Republican (and Trump ally) Matt Gaetz is under investigation by the house for sex trafficing of a minor
- Republican (and recipient of a Trump Pardon) "Sherriff" Joe Arpaio failed to investigate multiple sex crimes involving minors
- Republican (and former darling of various republican politicians) Jim Bob Duggar knew his son had molested more than 1 of his sisters, and failed to get proper counselling for him.

That's not to mention all the rather... questionable... things Trump himself has done... make sexualy suggestive statements about his daughter, walking in on a dressing room in a teen beauty pagent, bragging about how Epstien "liked them young".

So, why exactly are you holding republicans in such high regard when it comes to sexual exploitation of chidlren?

That's straight out of the Liberal playbook. Go ahead, tell me how Trump is the one with Dementia in age related cognitive decline

You mean the guy who claimed that airplanes existed in the revolutionary war? The guy who confused Hailey and Pelosi? The guy who thought Biden was a time-travelling wizard (how else would Biden go back and start World War 2)? The guy who would just wander off stage in the middle of a bill-signing ceremony?

Yeah, I wonder why people think Trump is in mental decline.

Of course there is one defense of Trump... its possible that his problems aren't necessarily due to mental decline, because he has always been a moron.

...and how Biden has "stamina".

Except of course democrats aren't claiming Biden has Stamina. They do recognize he is aging, and that does affect energy levels.

We just recognize that whatever problems Biden is having with respect to aging, it is less signficant than with Trump, a man who couldn't drink a bottle of water or walk down a ramp properly.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Trump increased the Deficit like no other.
And Biden is still paying for his rich guy tax cuts - without it, the budget would look very different.

If you think that Republicans are good for the economy or deficit, you have not been paying attention.

 

[arthwollipot]

We just recognize that whatever problems Biden is having with respect to aging, it is less signficant than with Trump, a man who couldn't drink a bottle of water or walk down a ramp properly.

...and is a pathological narcissist who is psychologically incapable of considering the needs of anybody but himself.